How To Tell T. g. graeca from T. g. ibera
 

Each subspecies is very variable in color, shell shape and size. Here are some of the best ways to tell the difference between T. g. graeca and T. g. ibera.
Here is a diagram of the carapace
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...acediagram.png
The first vertebral or central scute of T. g. graeca is almost always rounded on the sides
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...lelibyan6b.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...anfemale-1.jpg
The first vertebral or central scute of T. g. ibera is almost always straight on the sides
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ramale1b-1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...P1010144-2.jpg
Some T. g. ibera do have slightly rounded sides, so you must take all the points into account to tell subspecies
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...n/IM000066.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...Female_1-1.jpg
Here's a picture showing the plastral scutes
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../plastron2.gif
On the plastron of T. g. graeca, the seam between the abdominal and femoral scutes forms a sharp angle downwards at the ends
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...n/100_1575.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...n/herleg1a.jpg
On the plastron of T. g. ibera, the seam between the abdominal and femoral scutes forms a straight line or has a gentle curve at the ends
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...beramale1c.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...n/Male_4-1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...beramale1d.jpg
The head of T. g. graeca is blunt and small, usually with yellow on the top and sides of the head
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...n/100_1676.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...n/100_1573.jpg
The head of T. g. ibera is pointed and larger, usually dark, but sometimes with yellow also
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...P1010147-1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ngreek1c-1.jpg

This is just a guide, but hopefully will help people tell the difference between the 2 subspecies. There are other subspecies so your tortoise might not quite fit these descriptions.

Photos Courtesy of Henry-Flash (Peter) and Egyptiandan (Danny)

Danny

extremely helpful danny

thank you :D

This is fantastic, Dan. For the first time I can really see the differences. Thanks so much for putting that together.

Thank you for putting back together other thread is deleted no need for two

Darren

Thanks Dan :)
I like the addition of the carapace map :wink:

Very informative thread, very easy to follow with the diagrams and pictures of real tortoises too.

Ade :wink:

Thanks Danny what a great help I can now tell what my torts are, looks like i have 3 sorts, tgg and tgi ,not sure of the third yet wondered if you have any info on whitei I think thats what she is.
regards dave.

Dave if you post plastron and carapace shots in the ID forum we can try to ID her for you :D

Danny

Thanks Dan that was so informative and helpul :D

Hi Danny have posted 3 thanks for your help Dave.