How To Tell T. g. graeca from T. g. ibera

**egyptiandan64** · 20-03-2007, 03:50 PM

Each subspecies is very variable in color, shell shape and size. Here are some of the best ways to tell the difference between T. g. graeca and T. g. ibera.
Here is a diagram of the carapace

The first vertebral or central scute of T. g. graeca is almost always rounded on the sides

The first vertebral or central scute of T. g. ibera is almost always straight on the sides

Some T. g. ibera do have slightly rounded sides, so you must take all the points into account to tell subspecies

Here's a picture showing the plastral scutes

On the plastron of T. g. graeca, the seam between the abdominal and femoral scutes forms a sharp angle downwards at the ends

On the plastron of T. g. ibera, the seam between the abdominal and femoral scutes forms a straight line or has a gentle curve at the ends

The head of T. g. graeca is blunt and small, usually with yellow on the top and sides of the head

The head of T. g. ibera is pointed and larger, usually dark, but sometimes with yellow also

This is just a guide, but hopefully will help people tell the difference between the 2 subspecies. There are other subspecies so your tortoise might not quite fit these descriptions.

Photos Courtesy of Henry-Flash (Peter) and Egyptiandan (Danny)

Danny

20-03-2007, 04:02 PM

extremely helpful danny

thank you

**stells** · 20-03-2007, 04:50 PM

Thanks for redoing this Danny

its even better than the first

Kelly
xxxxxxxx

nina · 20-03-2007, 06:17 PM

This is fantastic, Dan. For the first time I can really see the differences. Thanks so much for putting that together.

**piglet** · 20-03-2007, 06:57 PM

Thank you for putting back together other thread is deleted no need for two

Darren

Henry-flash · 20-03-2007, 07:03 PM

Thanks Dan

I like the addition of the carapace map

**Eire_Ade** · 23-03-2007, 11:40 PM

Very informative thread, very easy to follow with the diagrams and pictures of real tortoises too.

Ade

davej · 17-04-2007, 08:41 PM

Thanks Danny what a great help I can now tell what my torts are, looks like i have 3 sorts, tgg and tgi ,not sure of the third yet wondered if you have any info on whitei I think thats what she is.
regards dave.

**egyptiandan64** · 17-04-2007, 10:12 PM

Dave if you post plastron and carapace shots in the ID forum we can try to ID her for you

Danny

KearasNana · 18-04-2007, 07:39 AM

Thanks Dan that was so informative and helpul

20-03-2007, 03:50 PM	#1
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 7,811	How To Tell T. g. graeca from T. g. ibera Each subspecies is very variable in color, shell shape and size. Here are some of the best ways to tell the difference between T. g. graeca and T. g. ibera. Here is a diagram of the carapace The first vertebral or central scute of T. g. graeca is almost always rounded on the sides The first vertebral or central scute of T. g. ibera is almost always straight on the sides Some T. g. ibera do have slightly rounded sides, so you must take all the points into account to tell subspecies Here's a picture showing the plastral scutes On the plastron of T. g. graeca, the seam between the abdominal and femoral scutes forms a sharp angle downwards at the ends On the plastron of T. g. ibera, the seam between the abdominal and femoral scutes forms a straight line or has a gentle curve at the ends The head of T. g. graeca is blunt and small, usually with yellow on the top and sides of the head The head of T. g. ibera is pointed and larger, usually dark, but sometimes with yellow also This is just a guide, but hopefully will help people tell the difference between the 2 subspecies. There are other subspecies so your tortoise might not quite fit these descriptions. Photos Courtesy of Henry-Flash (Peter) and Egyptiandan (Danny) Danny __________________

20-03-2007, 04:50 PM	#3
stells Administrator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 11,272	Thanks for redoing this Danny its even better than the first Kelly xxxxxxxx __________________

20-03-2007, 06:17 PM	#4
nina Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,334	This is fantastic, Dan. For the first time I can really see the differences. Thanks so much for putting that together. __________________ http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk l

20-03-2007, 06:57 PM	#5
piglet Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,986	Thank you for putting back together other thread is deleted no need for two Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

20-03-2007, 07:03 PM	#6
Henry-flash Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 9,293	Thanks Dan I like the addition of the carapace map __________________ Peter Keeping: Testudo hermanni, Testudo graeca (graeca, ibera & nabeulensis), Testudo horsfieldi, Malacochersus tornieri and Kinixys belliana. The North West Tortoise Group

20-03-2007, 04:02 PM	#2
aprillinda Guest Posts: n/a	extremely helpful danny thank you

23-03-2007, 11:40 PM	#7
Eire_Ade Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 8,134	Very informative thread, very easy to follow with the diagrams and pictures of real tortoises too. Ade __________________ Ade ----------------------------------------------- Y.O.B 1971 (39 years old) My Tortoises :- Dug (Testudo Graeca Ibera Terrestris (Syrian), Penny, JJ (JennyJack), Buttons and Gem (Testudo Graeca Ibera)

17-04-2007, 08:41 PM	#8
davej Junior Member Egg Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: DEVON Posts: 32	Thanks Danny what a great help I can now tell what my torts are, looks like i have 3 sorts, tgg and tgi ,not sure of the third yet wondered if you have any info on whitei I think thats what she is. regards dave.

17-04-2007, 10:12 PM	#9
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 7,811	Dave if you post plastron and carapace shots in the ID forum we can try to ID her for you Danny __________________

18-04-2007, 07:39 AM	#10
KearasNana Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 1,796	Thanks Dan that was so informative and helpul __________________

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