Visit to Ghana

[EJ]

Unless I missunderstand you... the natural form is close to becoming extinct in the pet hobby. I would have to say this species is at the top of the list of those reptiles that are inbred for specific coloration or morphs.

Prices of some morphs are upwards of 60,000 USD.

I posted this on another forum which seems to focus on ball python morphs... the post generated little interest.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

interesting Video!
Good to see Herr Pether, perfecting his German language presentation too.
These short programmes do provide an insight into the collection and trade in this popular vivarium species. The docile female in the clip shows I think several attributes which makes them suitable to the Vivarium hobby:
1. Size; not too large.
2. Natural colouration; beautiful in the wild form, not necessary to vary this too much in genetic mutations, and risk in breeding!
3. temperament; wild docile nature, is attractive feature in captivity.
The video clip also reminds me of the early Durrell collecting trips : "Bafut Beagles". Recommended read for hobbyists of all ages.

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Unless I missunderstand you... the natural form is close to becoming extinct in the pet hobby. I would have to say this species is at the top of the list of those reptiles that are inbred for specific coloration or morphs.

Prices of some morphs are upwards of 60,000 USD.

I posted this on another forum which seems to focus on ball python morphs... the post generated little interest.

Ed,
This is exactly my point. The sight of a natural coloured Royal Python is far more appealing than many if not all of the "morphs" seen in the current hobby.
The market in these is reminiscent of the 17th century Tulip trade in the Netherlands!
To remind those whom might not be aware of this phenomenon:
Market Crashes: The Tulip and Bulb Craze
Filed Under » Banking, Budgeting, Business, Economics, Economy, International Markets, Real Estate, Recession, Stocks
By Andrew Beattie

When: 1634-1637
Where: Holland

The amount the market declined from peak to bottom: This number is difficult to calculate, but, we can tell you that at the peak of the market, a person could trade a single tulip for an entire estate, and, at the bottom, one tulip was the price of a common onion.

Synopsis: In 1593 tulips were brought from Turkey and introduced to the Dutch. The novelty of the new flower made it widely sought after and therefore fairly pricey. After a time, the tulips contracted a non-fatal virus known as mosaic, which didn't kill the tulip population but altered them causing "flames" of color to appear upon the petals. The color patterns came in a wide variety, increasing the rarity of an already unique flower. Thus, tulips, which were already selling at a premium, began to rise in price according to how their virus alterations were valued, or desired. Everyone began to deal in bulbs, essentially speculating on the tulip market, which was believed to have no limits.

The true bulb buyers (the garden centers of the past) began to fill up inventories for the growing season, depleting the supply further and increasing scarcity and demand. Soon, prices were rising so fast and high that people were trading their land, life savings, and anything else they could liquidate to get more tulip bulbs. Many Dutch persisted in believing they would sell their hoard to hapless and unenlightened foreigners, thereby reaping enormous profits. Somehow, the originally overpriced tulips enjoyed a twenty-fold increase in value - in one month!

Needless to say, the prices were not an accurate reflection of the value of a tulip bulb. As it happens in many speculative bubbles, some prudent people decided to sell and crystallize their profits. A domino effect of progressively lower and lower prices took place as everyone tried to sell while not many were buying. The price began to dive, causing people to panic and sell regardless of losses.

Dealers refused to honor contracts and people began to realize they traded their homes for a piece of greenery; panic and pandemonium were prevalent throughout the land. The government attempted to step in and halt the crash by offering to honor contracts at 10% of the face value, but then the market plunged even lower, making such restitution impossible. No one emerged unscathed from the crash. Even the people who had locked in their profit by getting out early suffered under the following depression.

The effects of the tulip craze left the Dutch very hesitant about speculative investments for quite some time. Investors now can know that it is better to stop and smell the flowers than to stake your future upon one.

[EJ]

For some reason that triggered a memory in one of my highschool classes.

Tell me you didn't quote that from memory.

I personally love the natural color of a ball python. Some of the morphs are cool looking.

I so screwed up in the early 80s. A friend imported about 1000 adults. I saw one that stood out from all the others. I wasn't into pythons at the time. The same thing happened with a Retic I saw in as large a shipment... both would have been $35 USD each at the time.

You are correct. In the leopard geckos it is difficult to find a normal and nearly impossible to find one that was wild caught or close to it. I lost my WC Leopard a few years back... had him 29 years.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Ed,
This is exactly my point. The sight of a natural coloured Royal Python is far more appealing than many if not all of the "morphs" seen in the current hobby.
The market in these is reminiscent of the 17th century Tulip trade in the Netherlands!
To remind those whom might not be aware of this phenomenon:
Market Crashes: The Tulip and Bulb Craze
Filed Under » Banking, Budgeting, Business, Economics, Economy, International Markets, Real Estate, Recession, Stocks
By Andrew Beattie

When: 1634-1637
Where: Holland

The amount the market declined from peak to bottom: This number is difficult to calculate, but, we can tell you that at the peak of the market, a person could trade a single tulip for an entire estate, and, at the bottom, one tulip was the price of a common onion.

Synopsis: In 1593 tulips were brought from Turkey and introduced to the Dutch. The novelty of the new flower made it widely sought after and therefore fairly pricey. After a time, the tulips contracted a non-fatal virus known as mosaic, which didn't kill the tulip population but altered them causing "flames" of color to appear upon the petals. The color patterns came in a wide variety, increasing the rarity of an already unique flower. Thus, tulips, which were already selling at a premium, began to rise in price according to how their virus alterations were valued, or desired. Everyone began to deal in bulbs, essentially speculating on the tulip market, which was believed to have no limits.

The true bulb buyers (the garden centers of the past) began to fill up inventories for the growing season, depleting the supply further and increasing scarcity and demand. Soon, prices were rising so fast and high that people were trading their land, life savings, and anything else they could liquidate to get more tulip bulbs. Many Dutch persisted in believing they would sell their hoard to hapless and unenlightened foreigners, thereby reaping enormous profits. Somehow, the originally overpriced tulips enjoyed a twenty-fold increase in value - in one month!

Needless to say, the prices were not an accurate reflection of the value of a tulip bulb. As it happens in many speculative bubbles, some prudent people decided to sell and crystallize their profits. A domino effect of progressively lower and lower prices took place as everyone tried to sell while not many were buying. The price began to dive, causing people to panic and sell regardless of losses.

Dealers refused to honor contracts and people began to realize they traded their homes for a piece of greenery; panic and pandemonium were prevalent throughout the land. The government attempted to step in and halt the crash by offering to honor contracts at 10% of the face value, but then the market plunged even lower, making such restitution impossible. No one emerged unscathed from the crash. Even the people who had locked in their profit by getting out early suffered under the following depression.

The effects of the tulip craze left the Dutch very hesitant about speculative investments for quite some time. Investors now can know that it is better to stop and smell the flowers than to stake your future upon one.

[egyptiandan64]

I remember working in a petshop int the mid to late 80's. The owner had ordered ball pythons from a dealer and one came in with a bunch of white patches. He had the driver take back the snake as said no one would buy a ball python that looked like that at his shop. That was the first piebald ball python I had seen.

Danny

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

For some reason that triggered a memory in one of my highschool classes.

Tell me you didn't quote that from memory.

I personally love the natural color of a ball python. Some of the morphs are cool looking.

I so screwed up in the early 80s. A friend imported about 1000 adults. I saw one that stood out from all the others. I wasn't into pythons at the time. The same thing happened with a Retic I saw in as large a shipment... both would have been $35 USD each at the time.

You are correct. In the leopard geckos it is difficult to find a normal and nearly impossible to find one that was wild caught or close to it. I lost my WC Leopard a few years back... had him 29 years.

My memory is not that good Ed. Good old cut and paste. However, the story is well worth considering. The hobby, in recent years has created a string of potential bubbles and I see them bursting within the not too distant future......

[EJ]

The reptile industry has always had flavors of the month. The ball pythons, Leopard geckos, bearded dragons are some of the longest running ones. The way it has worked in the past another flavor has always been there to take the last ones place. As the world shrinks... there will be new flavors available. It's just a matter of time before Austrailia opens up. I honestly believe it will along with other restrictive countries.

As long as dealers are willing to show that the industry can be beneficial to a local economy... I think there is going to be change as has been proven in the past.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

My memory is not that good Ed. Good old cut and paste. However, the story is well worth considering. The hobby, in recent years has created a string of potential bubbles and I see them bursting within the not too distant future......

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

The reptile industry has always had flavors of the month. The ball pythons, Leopard geckos, bearded dragons are some of the longest running ones. The way it has worked in the past another flavor has always been there to take the last ones place. As the world shrinks... there will be new flavors available. It's just a matter of time before Austrailia opens up. I honestly believe it will along with other restrictive countries.

As long as dealers are willing to show that the industry can be beneficial to a local economy... I think there is going to be change as has been proven in the past.

Happy, to see this develop. I remember seeing a few years ago the story of a German biologist who had got native South American natives breeding Poison Dart frogs in the wild. They used plastic drink bottles cut into small flask shaped vessels. The female frogs are naturally limited in reproductive capacity due to insufficient suitable nest habitats. By increasing these, with artificial vessels the natural population increased the production of tadpoles, and these were then harvested and sent to the North American and European pet market.
in principle, a self sustaining use of a natural resource........
A by product of this process, is the conservation of wild populations, and the maintenance of a rain forest habitat. The relative high value of these frogs means the temptation to a slash and burn the forest is resisted too.

[EJ]

See... the pet trade does have its benefits.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Happy, to see this develop. I remember seeing a few years ago the story of a German biologist who had got native South American natives breeding Poison Dart frogs in the wild. They used plastic drink bottles cut into small flask shaped vessels. The female frogs are naturally limited in reproductive capacity due to insufficient suitable nest habitats. By increasing these, with artificial vessels the natural population increased the production of tadpoles, and these were then harvested and sent to the North American and European pet market.
in principle, a self sustaining use of a natural resource........
A by product of this process, is the conservation of wild populations, and the maintenance of a rain forest habitat. The relative high value of these frogs means the temptation to a slash and burn the forest is resisted too.

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

See... the pet trade does have its benefits.

Exactly.....
You know Ed, these stories need to be communicated better as they are example of a reality which is so often mis understood by the general public.
Here currently in the UK, the Herp keeping community are under siege from a group of animal right activists whom are engaging with local authorities, MP's and the media in a manner to vilify the conduct of our hobby.
Responsible husbandry, trade and hobbyists need to present the messages that are so frequently mis represented?

[EJ]

THOSE people have their own agenda. I think it is a matter of being in the spotlight than anything else.

THOSE people would take any information and twist it to suit their needs.

What out hobby needs is an equal voice to show how irrational THOSE people really are... which... btw... I believe the general public already knows but doesn't do anything about because it doesn't effect them directly.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Exactly.....
You know Ed, these stories need to be communicated better as they are example of a reality which is so often mis understood by the general public.
Here currently in the UK, the Herp keeping community are under siege from a group of animal right activists whom are engaging with local authorities, MP's and the media in a manner to vilify the conduct of our hobby.
Responsible husbandry, trade and hobbyists need to present the messages that are so frequently mis represented?