Think I've lost Dozer - Page 6

Lou · 12-01-2009, 10:34 AM

sorry kirkie xxxx

helen1 · 12-01-2009, 10:55 AM

I am very sorry to hear this...I too lost a tortoise last week.......she was very elderly....but I had no indication that all was not well....it is heartbreaking but we must carry on despite the set backs....keep an eye on the others. My instinct was to want to get all the other 20+ up...but I didnt!

Henry-flash · 12-01-2009, 05:16 PM

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Sadly these things do happen sometimes. During my first hibernation 3 years ago now, I lost 2 of my young Hermanns for no apparent reason. I had followed all the hibernation advice by the book, but still something went wrong. Despite encouragement from my close tortoise friends I couldn't go through with having a PM done at the time as they were the first tortoises I'd lost and I wanted to forget about it. I really wish I had had one done now as I'll never know what went wrong. I woke all the others up after the incident and touch wood have never had problems since.

Tracy D · 12-01-2009, 05:27 PM

So very sorry for your loss

Jason_London · 12-01-2009, 06:08 PM

Sorry to hear that. My thoughts are with you.

Jason

3lli3 xx · 12-01-2009, 06:12 PM

I wish i could say i know what your going through, but luckly i can't. Thinking of you so very sorry.x

EJ · 12-01-2009, 06:56 PM

Sorry to hear of your loss but as you can see there are many people who have been through this very simple process with minimal risk.

Unforutanately you took the risk and those that insist hibernation is a very simple process did not.

I'm sorry to make this example but after 10 years of reading these kinds of posts this time of year hopefully folks will begin to give it better thought.

Kirkie · 12-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Thanks again all. I've arrange for an inital post mortem to be undertaken tomorrow so maybe I'll have a better understanding then. I've either taken this tort over the edge or misinterpreted classic health warnings as accepted winding down criteria. They are scarily similar, inactivity and weight loss.

I'm continuing with the hibernation of my other tortoises, this isn't my first shot at it and I like to think I have at least a grasp of the processes that are happening during hibernation.

For any that are interested this tortoise was in hibernation for two weeks, following a wind down period of 26 days. Dozer was what is considered a "safe" weight at the start of the wind down. Doz was 8.2 CM's SCL and weighed 111 grams on 27/11. Was regularly bathed during this period.

Went into the fridge at 90 grams a 19% loss of total body weight. One other tortoise displayed roughly equivilent levels of weight loss the rest range between 7-15% . (these tortoises are all Hermanns ranging from 7 to 13.5 CM SCL)

Temps in the fridge are stable at 4.5-5.5 degrees. The minimum recorded temp is 4.0. The maximum 5.7. One fridge has an aquarium pump on 24/7. The fridge dozer was in was reliant on me opening the door (which I was doing several times a day for a couple of minutes).

Its hard to tell when Dozer died, I've been visually checking daily and a weight check after a week showed minimal additional loss. The other tortoises have continued to maintain body weight during the second week.

I'm not writing all this to beat myself up, I'm looking for comment so that hopefully it might stop it happening to someone else. There is the gloweringly obvious fact and that's that Dozer lost a hell of a lot of weight in 4 weeks.

EJ · 12-01-2009, 07:59 PM

The problem with using weight as a criteria is that the bladder can hold as much as 1/5 of the tortoises weight... that's 20%. It can dump up to 20% of it's weight with on evacuation and that does not include the gut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirkie

Thanks again all. I've arrange for an inital post mortem to be undertaken tomorrow so maybe I'll have a better understanding then. I've either taken this tort over the edge or misinterpreted classic health warnings as accepted winding down criteria. They are scarily similar, inactivity and weight loss.

I'm continuing with the hibernation of my other tortoises, this isn't my first shot at it and I like to think I have at least a grasp of the processes that are happening during hibernation.

For any that are interested this tortoise was in hibernation for two weeks, following a wind down period of 26 days. Dozer was what is considered a "safe" weight at the start of the wind down. Doz was 8.2 CM's SCL and weighed 111 grams on 27/11. Was regularly bathed during this period.

Went into the fridge at 90 grams a 19% loss of total body weight. One other tortoise displayed roughly equivilent levels of weight loss the rest range between 7-15% . (these tortoises are all Hermanns ranging from 7 to 13.5 CM SCL)

Temps in the fridge are stable at 4.5-5.5 degrees. The minimum recorded temp is 4.0. The maximum 5.7. One fridge has an aquarium pump on 24/7. The fridge dozer was in was reliant on me opening the door (which I was doing several times a day for a couple of minutes).

Its hard to tell when Dozer died, I've been visually checking daily and a weight check after a week showed minimal additional loss. The other tortoises have continued to maintain body weight during the second week.

I'm not writing all this to beat myself up, I'm looking for comment so that hopefully it might stop it happening to someone else. There is the gloweringly obvious fact and that's that Dozer lost a hell of a lot of weight in 4 weeks.

Paulg1 · 12-01-2009, 08:10 PM

I'm not a vet as you guys know and I'm just making a stab here but my first thought was dehydration.

12-01-2009, 10:34 AM	#51
Lou Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wigan - Greater Manchester Posts: 1,172	sorry kirkie xxxx __________________ Louise... Horsfield: 1.0.2 Walter / Izzy / Tilly Redfoot : 1.3.0 Ruby / Scarlet / Merlot / Ginger Goldfish : 0:0:1 Splodge Bearded Dragon : 0:1:0 Zuki Springer Spaniel : 1:0:0 Bailey

12-01-2009, 10:55 AM	#52
helen1 Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NORTH WEST Posts: 1,977	I am very sorry to hear this...I too lost a tortoise last week.......she was very elderly....but I had no indication that all was not well....it is heartbreaking but we must carry on despite the set backs....keep an eye on the others. My instinct was to want to get all the other 20+ up...but I didnt! __________________ I CARE FOR TORTS

12-01-2009, 05:16 PM	#53
Henry-flash Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 9,304	Sorry to hear of your loss. Sadly these things do happen sometimes. During my first hibernation 3 years ago now, I lost 2 of my young Hermanns for no apparent reason. I had followed all the hibernation advice by the book, but still something went wrong. Despite encouragement from my close tortoise friends I couldn't go through with having a PM done at the time as they were the first tortoises I'd lost and I wanted to forget about it. I really wish I had had one done now as I'll never know what went wrong. I woke all the others up after the incident and touch wood have never had problems since. __________________ Peter Keeping: Testudo hermanni, Testudo graeca (graeca & ibera ), Testudo horsfieldi, Astrochelys radiata, Malacochersus tornieri and Kinixys belliana. The North West Tortoise Group

12-01-2009, 05:27 PM	#54
Tracy D Member Hatched Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dublin Ireland Posts: 394	So very sorry for your loss __________________ 2 Hermans Cecil & Tilly 1Hamster Hammie 1Bearded dragon Gizmo

12-01-2009, 06:12 PM	#56
3lli3 xx Member Egg Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: London, Essex Posts: 68	I wish i could say i know what your going through, but luckly i can't. Thinking of you so very sorry.x __________________

12-01-2009, 06:08 PM	#55
Jason_London Junior Member Egg Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 38	Sorry to hear that. My thoughts are with you. Jason

12-01-2009, 06:56 PM	#57
EJ Senior Member Adult Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,277	Sorry to hear of your loss but as you can see there are many people who have been through this very simple process with minimal risk. Unforutanately you took the risk and those that insist hibernation is a very simple process did not. I'm sorry to make this example but after 10 years of reading these kinds of posts this time of year hopefully folks will begin to give it better thought. __________________ Ed Tortoise Keerpers @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tortoise_Keepers and http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/284442591651347/ Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

12-01-2009, 07:53 PM	#58
Kirkie Senior Member Adult Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,887	Thanks again all. I've arrange for an inital post mortem to be undertaken tomorrow so maybe I'll have a better understanding then. I've either taken this tort over the edge or misinterpreted classic health warnings as accepted winding down criteria. They are scarily similar, inactivity and weight loss. I'm continuing with the hibernation of my other tortoises, this isn't my first shot at it and I like to think I have at least a grasp of the processes that are happening during hibernation. For any that are interested this tortoise was in hibernation for two weeks, following a wind down period of 26 days. Dozer was what is considered a "safe" weight at the start of the wind down. Doz was 8.2 CM's SCL and weighed 111 grams on 27/11. Was regularly bathed during this period. Went into the fridge at 90 grams a 19% loss of total body weight. One other tortoise displayed roughly equivilent levels of weight loss the rest range between 7-15% . (these tortoises are all Hermanns ranging from 7 to 13.5 CM SCL) Temps in the fridge are stable at 4.5-5.5 degrees. The minimum recorded temp is 4.0. The maximum 5.7. One fridge has an aquarium pump on 24/7. The fridge dozer was in was reliant on me opening the door (which I was doing several times a day for a couple of minutes). Its hard to tell when Dozer died, I've been visually checking daily and a weight check after a week showed minimal additional loss. The other tortoises have continued to maintain body weight during the second week. I'm not writing all this to beat myself up, I'm looking for comment so that hopefully it might stop it happening to someone else. There is the gloweringly obvious fact and that's that Dozer lost a hell of a lot of weight in 4 weeks.

12-01-2009, 08:10 PM	#60
Paulg1 Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,116	I'm not a vet as you guys know and I'm just making a stab here but my first thought was dehydration. __________________ 0.1.0 G. sulcata/Larry 0.1.0 G. pardalis babcocki/Leo 1.0.0 G. pardalis pardalis/Tino "Stop the world, I want to get off!"

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