Advice needed on an old-timer please

[Leah Marie]

I have started to look after my neighbour's med spur thigh whilst she goes on holiday. She believes him to be 80+ years although she has owned him for 38 years. Her son found him wandering in the street and it transpired that the owners had moved away and left him behind so they kept him. A vet examined him at the time and thought he was about 40+ years old.

Fred has been living his years in their garden during the spring/summer and hibernating every year throughout the winter. His shell is beautiful and smooth and up until now he has been fit and healthy (although he has always been fed on lettuce, cucumber, bananas, etc).

Unfortunately whilst he was in hibernation this past winter the lady's husband passed away and since then she has been having trouble getting Fred to eat. Is it possible he is pining for his owner as the lady admits her husband did everything for the tort and she hasn't much of a clue about the care it requires?

After chatting to me she has realised that he needs drinking water (he has not had a water bowl for all these years) and has started to bathe him regularly. I have also tried getting him to eat various weeds but to no avail. He took one mouthful of nipple wart and started gagging and opening his mouth really wide, honestly I thought I had killed him the way he reacted.

I have weighed and measured him for her as she thinks he has lost weight and is worried he won't be heavy enough to hibernate this year. She has no indoor set-up to overwinter him in. He measures 19.5 cm and weighs 1409 g.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Leah Marie

I have started to look after my neighbour's med spur thigh whilst she goes on holiday. She believes him to be 80+ years although she has owned him for 38 years. Her son found him wandering in the street and it transpired that the owners had moved away and left him behind so they kept him. A vet examined him at the time and thought he was about 40+ years old.

Fred has been living his years in their garden during the spring/summer and hibernating every year throughout the winter. His shell is beautiful and smooth and up until now he has been fit and healthy (although he has always been fed on lettuce, cucumber, bananas, etc).

Unfortunately whilst he was in hibernation this past winter the lady's husband passed away and since then she has been having trouble getting Fred to eat. Is it possible he is pining for his owner as the lady admits her husband did everything for the tort and she hasn't much of a clue about the care it requires?

After chatting to me she has realised that he needs drinking water (he has not had a water bowl for all these years) and has started to bathe him regularly. I have also tried getting him to eat various weeds but to no avail. He took one mouthful of nipple wart and started gagging and opening his mouth really wide, honestly I thought I had killed him the way he reacted.

I have weighed and measured him for her as she thinks he has lost weight and is worried he won't be heavy enough to hibernate this year. She has no indoor set-up to overwinter him in. He measures 19.5 cm and weighs 1409 g.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

For the first year for a long time, we have had a cold Winter, and Spring. This has meant that our temps have been a lot lower than the norm. So if a tortoise has no extra heat when they come out of hibernation, they will struggle to eat. Its vital that they are eating well within the first month of coming out of hibernation. And the next couple of months too. Our temps have been a lot lower, so extra heat is vital in the first few months if our temps are down. This does depend a lot on where you live.
This tortoise sounds like its anarexic (sp). And will need extra heat to get hiim/her going. If not a visit to the vets, will hopefully tell what the problem is.
For the first time in well over 20yrs, I am having to suplement heat now and again, so my tortoises remain healthy and eating:0(

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi there. This does sound like it could be post hibernation anorexia, which can lead to the death of a tortoise.

If extra heat and bathing doesn't help him to start eating very soon I think the tortoise should visit the vet. It might be necessary to tube feed or otherwise intervene to get nutrition into into the system. It can be very frustrating when they won't eat, and if the tortoise starts to decline he becomes less likely to want to eat which can mean drastic measures are necessary.

You make a very good point about future hibernation and although that is a way off at the moment, I think you are right in thinking that if this tortoise hibernates at the end of this summer there is a good chance he would die in hibernation.

In this situation I wouldn't worry about unhealthy food if that is what he is used to eating.

Personally I don't think a tortoise would be pining for someone that has died. Others may have different beliefs, but I don't think a tortoise has that sort of capacity.

[Suze65]

I agree with both the above, if heat and soaking don't get him eating, then he must go to the vet and probably needs tube feeding to get him started. Personally I wouldn't hibernate next winter, so he will need indoor accommodation , lighting and heating. He is NOT pining for the owner who has passed away. Drastic measures are now needed.

[Pussygalore]

hibernation is a long way off and if the tort start eating then he has plenty of time to gain the weight needed, its easier said than done to try to over winter an animal that has always slept you could have a real fight on your hands with him not eating and wanting to sleep. As for what he's been eating it obviously hasn't done him any harm in all the past years so I'd not try to change it, that may be why he doesn't want to eat, try to find out what he had if any and stick to that. A bit like water he has obviously found enough in the past so again unless he enjoys his baths they to might be upsetting him, old torts don't like change and it doesn't take much to upset them, he knows how to survive and has been doing it for far longer than us. I assume he still in his same garden? if you have moved him then have a look and see what is different about yours and his old one, his old one again had what he needed, maybe there are more different plants that he could eat. One more thing do you have any idea of how much he did weigh, has he actually lost a lot? but like its been said a vet check up couldn't hurt but it needs to be a good tort vet and not just your everyday one.

[Suze65]

I agree with not changing his food suddenly, but just get him to eat would be good even if it's what he's used to then change it slowly, but I would be giving him warm baths, hydration is essential. There may or may not be enough time for him to put on enough weight for next winters hibernation , that depends on wether or not you can get him eating enough in time, and not hibernating him this winter may be a safer option. I over wintered my old tort for the first time last winter, he has been hibernated for at least the last 68 years that I know of, and he is I think about 90-100 years old, I had no trouble keeping him up all winter, he ate well, and was very active, and raring to go in the spring. The reason for doing this was because he was struggling with coming out of hibernation even under warm lamps, in a cosy warm room. He's just too old now.

[Pussygalore]

you were lucky in that your tort accepted being awake I had two that wouldn't, especially my female, in her 40's, even trying to keep her awake a few weeks longer than she wanted was a nightmare. She wouldn't eat anything and refused to come out from her bed despite good light and heat, if taken from the bed she would promptly return, she might, if you were lucky sit in the sun asleep but never a morsel of food would she take. I would have dreaded having to keep her awake over the winter and don't know how long she would have gone without eating or if she would eventually have ate. The male wasn't a lot better despite being a lot younger, the poster might indeed be lucky like you but she could also have a tort like mine and that I'd not wish on anyone.

[Leah Marie]

Thanks everyone for your advice, today I went to feed him later in the morning hoping he would have warmed up a bit more. He did have a few bites of lettuce and about four mouthfuls of banana so he is eating a little bit. I left his food in the garden as he has free roam and will go back later on to check on him.
Usually I go over to check he is ok about 6.30 and he has more often than not taken himself off to bed in his wooden house. The food has always gone but I suspect the birds have eaten most of it.

[Pussygalore]

has he always had fruit as its really a no no, he will always eat that over any greenery and it can upset his tum, you have to think what would he find in the wild and I doubt fruit would be on the list. His digestive system is designed to get whatever nutrients there are out of plants that for most of the year are dried up and mostly fibre. Lettuce I'm afraid is much the same consisting of mostly water, is that what he's been used to? is there much growing in his usual garden? if not he may have been under weight for many years and not just this one, is that a possibility.

[Leah Marie]

I've just been to check on him and he ate some lettuce from my hand and his food had gone. He has free roam of the garden so could possibly be grazing.
There are some lovely sedums growing which my two would have munched down to the ground but he doesn't appear to have eaten any (I've been round the garden looking for munched plants).
The husband weighed and measured him before hibernating each year and had just joined a local tortoise club who were giving him a more modern view on tortoise care but unfortunately he died suddenly just after this. He had begun to try to feed a few pellets before hibernating last year to get a healthy weight so maybe he was on the light side then.
For a tortoise fed on this kind of diet he as a lovely smooth shell and has never needed to see a vet.