Mbd

[Hermione15]

Hello, my name is Christine and I am a newby to this forum. 2 weeks ago it became the proud new owner of Hermione, a 6 year old Hermanns. I rehomed her from a friend whose son she belonged to. I read up on loads of forums/ websites before I got her and felt that I was quite prepared. However...
Once she arrived, I excitedly shared some photos of my lovely tortoise on another forum, only to be told that she has a depressed spine and probable MBD. Now I'm really worried, and upset to think that she is really poorly. I am taking her to the vets ASAP, but have to find one locally with a tortoise specialist as I need the right information, and if I'm honest wait til payday at the end of the week.
Can anyone tell me, what is her outlook like? I've been told she can never hibernate or lay eggs, but will her life be limited, and is she in pain? Can she go outside or should she get treatment first? She walks on her tiptoes but maybe a bit lower at the back and her back legs drag somewhat- I'm not really sure what a 'normal' tortoise walk is like!
She came with a small tortoise table and on pellets- I have changed this to topsoil, making a larger table, got a UVB lamp and a thermometer. She seems happy in herself, eating well (a handful of freshly picked mixed weeds a day and nutrabal), having 1-2 baths daily, drinking, pooing and passing urates.
Any advice or reassurance from people who have looked after tortoises with this condition will be gratefully received.
Many thanks, Hermione's anxious mum x

[emma_mcraf]

Hi Christine, I didn't want to read and not respond. I've had no experience of MBD personally, but I believe it's irreversible. However, you can certainly make changes to Hermione's husbandry to prevent the condition getting any worse than it already is, which is what you're doing.
The UVB lamp is an excellent addition as is the Nutrobal.
I'm afraid I can't offer any advice or knowledge on her outlook but I believe there are many people with tortoises who haven't had the best start in life but now have a good quality of life with owners who care.
Perhaps a photo of Hermione on here would help us to see how she's looking. You may well find her walking improves as walking on pellets isn't good for torts and now she's on topsoil she will feel much more comfortable.
Well done for all your research and for wanting to improve her life.

[emma_mcraf]

Oh and welcome to the forum!

[Gordon]

Emma has given you some good advice but don't get in a panic with the correct diet and care she will be fine I'm sure. I'm assuming that she is a bit lumpy bumpy and you say she is up on her front feet but not as good on the back you probably have sorted that out just by getting her on soil and off those awful pellets which will have done her no good at all it would of been like walking on marbles all day GRRRRRR.
But we really need some pictures.

[Hermione15]

Thank you guys! Nice to hear from you I'm glad I am doing the right things, I do have some pictures of her but from when she is on the pellets, I will try and add them when I figure out how (am on my phone). She also has a really long beak which I am getting trimmed next week at the vets. Do you think I should keep her indoors until I've had her checked over? I am really enjoying having her, but am so worried about her! Thanks for all your help.
Christine 😕

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi Christine. I guessed where you might have got that advice and had a look. Sadly I think there is very little that I would not agree with, although I think it's wrong to diagnose MBD from a few photos.

I'd say it would be good to find a specialist vet. I'm afraid this tortoise has not developed the way nature intended and there will be long term consequences. You could say that treatment by a vet can only have limited benefits now.

But this doesn't mean that the tortoise can't have a good life in your care. The question of pain is a difficult one in my opinion. Tortoises are sensitive creatures and I think they do experience something like pain. But is this animal suffering? I honestly don't know and quite possibly it is not.

Take a bit of time finding a vet that really does know about tortoises. Some vets will have a go with anything that comes through their door but in this case you really do need someone with expertise.

Welcome to the forum! We're quite good at staying positive here, even when things are challenging.

[sandy]

Once a tortoise has MBD nothing can be done about it. All you can do is improve their husbandry from now.
As for their life span a lot depends on how bad it is. In severe cases it can damage their insides and bones. Other cases it's just raised scutes.
Severe cases can shorten their life span, but they can also be real characters.
Only an experienced good tortoise vet can be exact as to how much damage has been done. Usually by exray.

[burnt toast]

Hi and welcome. A lot of people will see a less than perfect looking tort and say it has MBD. I have several deformed, strange looking torts, that Im sure people would label MBD. Funnily enough the tort who is most severley affected by MBD actually looks quite normal! So what they look like isnt the best indicator. Blossom my worse affected was x rayed by a specialist vet and her back end fades to ghosting (her bones) she was prescribed anti inflamatories as my vet said her hip could be popping out of joint as she moves, which would be painful. My others move around a lot and dont appear to be in anypain, so it is hard to tell. I have known people report improvement in torts walking so dont give up hope.

Please keep us updated how you get on? By the way what species and age is she?

[emma_mcraf]

Originally Posted by burnt toast

Hi and welcome. A lot of people will see a less than perfect looking tort and say it has MBD. I have several deformed, strange looking torts, that Im sure people would label MBD. Funnily enough the tort who is most severley affected by MBD actually looks quite normal! So what they look like isnt the best indicator. Blossom my worse affected was x rayed by a specialist vet and her back end fades to ghosting (her bones) she was prescribed anti inflamatories as my vet said her hip could be popping out of joint as she moves, which would be painful. My others move around a lot and dont appear to be in anypain, so it is hard to tell. I have known people report improvement in torts walking so dont give up hope.

Please keep us updated how you get on? By the way what species and age is she?

She's a 6 year old Hermanns, Lynn.
Bless Blossom. You've done a great job with all your torts. I'm glad people with experience of MBD have been able to offer advice to the OP.

[Hermione15]

Thank you all for your help, you are all really kind! I did post earlier but think it is being moderated, so apologies if two messages turn up at once! I have found two potential 'specialist' vets in my area (Brighton), so I am going to take her to one next week for a beak trim and if they seem to be knowledgable then I will proceed to x-rays/ bloods, if not I will try the other one! And so on, until I find an expert! I will certainly post when I get some news and let you know, it's really reassuring to have experts/ tortoise lovers on hand for advice! I just hope that I can give her a comfortable and happy life, however long that may be, she's a little darling! ��