No certificate with new tortoise - Page 2

**Alan1** · 09-03-2011, 04:21 PM

unless it's a free gift

**Bindi** · 09-03-2011, 06:01 PM

Caledonia is correct. If the tortoise was gifted to you and you do not intend to breed from her/him and will not ever sell him then no certificate is required. You do not need a certificate just to own him

**16 shells** · 09-03-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inca08

Oh no...so no certificate,no tortoise then,she may well have to go back if it turns out she doesnt have a certificate as i really don't want to get into any trouble

I only wish my husband had notified me on his intentions to buy me another tortoise,then this wouldnt have happened,but bless him for trying,lol.

Did your husband pay for him or was he pulling your leg, and he had it given to him. No paperwork needed.

Inca08 · 10-03-2011, 07:01 AM

Thanks guys,i'm feeling a lot better now knowing that our little "gift" can stay with us

Theres no way she will be bred or sold on,so she can get on with bonding with my other 2 girls now,as she has always been on her own thats gonna be a task,lol

**Bindi** · 10-03-2011, 07:45 AM

Don't forget to quarranteen!

**Alan1** · 10-03-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stells

Are you 100% your new addition is a Hermanns?

Horsfields have been mistaken before... and these don't need A10's...

Very good point

Petrus · 10-03-2011, 10:13 AM

Caledonia is right. The A10 situation is a complete and utter joke. Having the rules in simple english would be a great help. It's totally unworkable too - just look at gumtree or preloved, they are flooded with tortoises being sold without the paperwork being in order. How could DEFRA possibly enforce the rules with so many just ignoring them.

It is perfectly legal for a seller just to provide the number, but I agree this is a farce. I have an original Article 10 for one of my Hermanns and a photocopy for the other. The variances in practice are huge.

Another point is that no one can be certain that an Article 10 is for a specific tortoise. I think most pet shops have a big bundle of A10s and there's no way of telling which one goes with which tortoise. This might not be such a problem for a breeder, but pet shops could have batches of tortoises from a variety of places (Slovenia, Turkey, Macedonia) so there's no way of being sure that your A10 relates to your tortoise.

One final point, someone once tried to sell me a Hermanns without the accurate paperwork and I contacted DEFRA for information. The guy warned me that both the seller and the buyer commit an offence if the paperwork is not in order. However, if it is a gift then that's fine.

Inca08 · 10-03-2011, 11:32 AM

I agree,these things should be made plain and simple...i have thought about things these last few days and can see there are so many loop holes,these tortoises are meant to be protected but where is the protection really?
And i also think that gift or no gift they SHOULD have certificates with them...whats the difference really?

wigwamman · 10-03-2011, 01:30 PM

the RULES are a total sham.
to joe bloggs in the street,buying a tortoise as a pet,paperwork will be irrelevant.
we only bother on here because we are tortoise nuts and probably want to breed them at a later date.
weather money changes hands or not,anyone can say a tort was GIFTED and produce PAPERWORK.

confused.co.uk

**Alan1** · 10-03-2011, 07:32 PM

Swad once came up with a good idea of having the A10 like the car registration document. Whenever it changes owners the new keeper and former keeper sends off the slips saying they are the new owners/or have given up ownership, simples

09-03-2011, 06:01 PM	#12
Bindi Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,157	Caledonia is correct. If the tortoise was gifted to you and you do not intend to breed from her/him and will not ever sell him then no certificate is required. You do not need a certificate just to own him __________________

10-03-2011, 07:45 AM	#15
Bindi Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,157	Don't forget to quarranteen! __________________

09-03-2011, 04:21 PM	#11
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	unless it's a free gift

10-03-2011, 07:01 AM	#14
Inca08 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 36	Thanks guys,i'm feeling a lot better now knowing that our little "gift" can stay with us Theres no way she will be bred or sold on,so she can get on with bonding with my other 2 girls now,as she has always been on her own thats gonna be a task,lol

10-03-2011, 10:13 AM	#17
Petrus Banned Juvenile Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Glasgow Posts: 997	Caledonia is right. The A10 situation is a complete and utter joke. Having the rules in simple english would be a great help. It's totally unworkable too - just look at gumtree or preloved, they are flooded with tortoises being sold without the paperwork being in order. How could DEFRA possibly enforce the rules with so many just ignoring them. It is perfectly legal for a seller just to provide the number, but I agree this is a farce. I have an original Article 10 for one of my Hermanns and a photocopy for the other. The variances in practice are huge. Another point is that no one can be certain that an Article 10 is for a specific tortoise. I think most pet shops have a big bundle of A10s and there's no way of telling which one goes with which tortoise. This might not be such a problem for a breeder, but pet shops could have batches of tortoises from a variety of places (Slovenia, Turkey, Macedonia) so there's no way of being sure that your A10 relates to your tortoise. One final point, someone once tried to sell me a Hermanns without the accurate paperwork and I contacted DEFRA for information. The guy warned me that both the seller and the buyer commit an offence if the paperwork is not in order. However, if it is a gift then that's fine.

10-03-2011, 11:32 AM	#18
Inca08 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 36	I agree,these things should be made plain and simple...i have thought about things these last few days and can see there are so many loop holes,these tortoises are meant to be protected but where is the protection really? And i also think that gift or no gift they SHOULD have certificates with them...whats the difference really?

10-03-2011, 01:30 PM	#19
wigwamman Member Juvenile Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: west midlands Posts: 800	the RULES are a total sham. to joe bloggs in the street,buying a tortoise as a pet,paperwork will be irrelevant. we only bother on here because we are tortoise nuts and probably want to breed them at a later date. weather money changes hands or not,anyone can say a tort was GIFTED and produce PAPERWORK. confused.co.uk

10-03-2011, 07:32 PM	#20
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	Swad once came up with a good idea of having the A10 like the car registration document. Whenever it changes owners the new keeper and former keeper sends off the slips saying they are the new owners/or have given up ownership, simples

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