Pancake Tortoises

[piglet]

Sandy there are sexual differences between pancakes and like most tortoise species they show at between 4-6years typically the tail is longer in the male also males have a squarer larger head as these tortoises engage in vicous territorial battles one adult male usually rules supreme over a group of females and sub adult males all other males are vanquished.
Also the males carapace pattern is more distinct supposedly then the females but i don't see it both are equally as attractive as each other.
Not sure if there is anything else Sandy but Jeff or Dan might point out some other differences
Darren

[sandy]

Thanks Darren

So you are saying that shape of the carapace has nothing to do with sexes?
How would someone like Jeff, get to be part of a breeding programme?
Just interested.
I do have a soft spot for pancakes (both sorts<vbg>).
I also didnt know the males were as territorial as other tortoises, possibly even worse. They
look such gentle souls.

[imported_Lowe]

There's a website somewhere which actually shows some of the battles the males go through and the damage they do to one another. I'll try to find it - I was shocked at how aggressive they are!

[sandy]

I have seen russians having a go, and didnt think any tortoise could be worse than them<g>.
A link to a site would be interesting.

[piglet]

Hi Sandy i will jeff with details of joining a breeding programme need to get the info from work seem to have misplaced it at home ,Darren if you read this sorry this is why the delay for you also.

Also yes very territorial and unlike most other tortoises species pancakes live in small social groups perhaps this behaviour has evolved from them living on isolated rock outcrops ( kopjes), the males will actually rear up on there hind legs to to combat Andy will post the thread with these pictures on .

Mind you Sandy pancakes might be aggressive a bit more so than other tortoise species but elongateds are the most violent aggressive tortoises i have ever kept now these are lethal both males and females
Darren

[sandy]

Wow I am on a big learning curve here<g>.
I didnt know that pancakes live in groups, so much different to most or all other speices.
I also didnt know that elongata were so viscious.
I only ever saw Jane Nicolls elongata that she had, they always looked and acted so quiet and
looked so harmless.

[piglet]

Sandy did Jane have a mixed sex group , if she did wow its rare to get them to mix males are extemley amourous and very aggressive they become pink in the face at certain times of the year( both sexes) this is there beak time of fertility and wow are they mad when this happens .my own female was lethal to house with her mate when she pinked up even though he was aggressive to her she was a like a mad bull , the tables often turned if he became pink at the same time as his aggressive drive was even worse .
What i found strange (they no longer live together) was he seemed more intent in damageing her than mating i think there is much still to learn about this species, heres a picture of Anna laying her last clutch unfortunatley they were all infertile
Darren

[imported_Lowe]

Elongated are insane. When they pink up for breeding... Well, lets say I'm glad I'm not a female Elongated! I saw one male once absolutely *total* a group of about 8 other tortoises. Everything was trying to escape it (a group of mixed species ) with little success and it was shocking that something so innocent looking was so damn nasty!

http://www.andrewlowe.plus.com/Tortoise/Lemonhead.jpg

^ that is a pic of the offending bugger hehe.

Yes Sandy Pancakes live in groups. Because they carry such little bone and shell, they don't wander and stray too far from a favoured hide. because of this they become isolated and little colonies build up. I can't find the website with the fighting on, but here's some more good links.

http://www.unc.edu/~dtkirkpa/stuff/pancake.html
http://www.unc.edu/~dtkirkpa/stuff/pancake2.html
http://www.whozoo.org/Intro2002/Tiff...keTortoise.htm

[jeff]

Hi Darren would love to join a breeding programme,looking forward to the info,Females tend to have a deeper body too,Hence egg production.

[egyptiandan64]

For sheer nastiness, Elongated males are right up there. I have had male pancakes fight, but they usually sorted it out fairly fast. Now if you want to see a fight put 2 Egyptian males together. They are ounce for ounce some of the most aggressive tortoises. They will ram each other, then get face to face and open their mouths and bite. Usually locking jaws and tussling, pulling back and forth. I have gotten males that have done some damage to each other in a very short period of time. I do it for short periods to get them going for breeding and you have to watch them. I've heard that Homopus and Psammobates males are the same way and Chersina are right there too with the Elongateds.

Dan