Urgent - ill tortoise & vets in Oxford

[sarah]

That really sounds like a protazoa problem. Ive had a few rehomers with this. I would get a poo sample and take it to your vets and ask them to check for protazoa.

Or you can send one in the post to Hannah, ring them first http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=74

[queenofjericho]

Thanks again to all of you. I've been wanting to reply to the recent posts by Sandy, Ade, and Sarah all day but frustratingly my hands haven't been well enough till now. I HAVE acted on everyone's advice though.

Firstly, GOOD news. Florence is actually eating today, properly, not just a tiny bite and a lot more than she's eaten for 2 weeks plus. I wonder if it's because we got some critical care formula into her yesterday.

Also, she's on her way to one of the vets on the 'Recommended' sticky, with the presumption she'll be an in-patient, though I don't know what they'll recommend now she's eating. Bruce in Reading has a broken hip, poor guy, but he recommended the one in East Sheen, London. Very luckily, my husband's parents live in East Sheen so he's can stay with them while she's there.

Sarah, I can't remember what protazoa is, and really frustratingly we couldn't find a poo sample to send with her (I suppose as she hasn't been eating...). I've asked my husband to ask them to test for it though, and presumably if she's an inpatient they'll be able to get a sample.

Sandy, I'm really worried to her 35 is too hot. I thought it was meant to be between 32 and 35 directly under the basking lamp. What should the temperature be? It's roughly 22 to 25 degrees elsewhere in her indoor home. Is that too hot too? I feel terrible if I've been baking her. Her substrate is 60% ish top soil, 40% ish play sand, and I'd ordered some hemp bedding to put in one bit of her home in case she wants a change. Sometimes she does dig down a bit. Is that ok? The conditions have all been the same over the past 6 months, temps etc, and she was so energetic until a few weeks ago.


Ade, thank you. My instinct was not to let her anywhere near our old vets, and you and the other peoples' messages that said the same gave me the guts to put my foot down and send my husband further afield!

I'll let you know when I know what the vet says. All fingers crossed.

Thanks for all of your support and welcomes, it means an awful lot.
Lucy

[sandy]

The temps under the light should be about 30 -32 once you start getting higher they will
just estivate (bury down) as its too hot. Tortoises this time of the year should really be outside
as they much prefer out than in. They sense the heat outside so do sulk<g>. I dont have any
torts indoors at the moment, all are outside 24/7. Even a 30grm graeca.

[queenofjericho]

Sandy,

Yes it's only been because she's ill that I've kept her inside. Until a month or so ago she absolutely loved it outside. Since then, whenever we've put her outside she's gone straight in her shell and gone to sleep, even when she'd been relatively energetic inside. We did persevere for a while, and leave her out for a few hours at a time, but she always seemed worse rather than better, so I brought her back in. It seems such a shame, for her to be missing the summer...

My vet (till yesterday) berated me for letting her go outside at all in the last month - he said it had been far too cold for tortoises! (This isn't right, is it?)

By the way, I forgot to mention that the most terrifying thing I noticed yesterday was that her scales seem to have been falling off. This must have been in the last few days. When I say falling off, I don't mean to reveal new ones, but what seemed like a small, bare patch on her arm. I really think she is very ill, and desperately hope she'll live.

Thanks, Lucy

[sandy]

She definitely needs to be seen by a different vet, as scales falling off is not right. And as she is slovinian
then a poo check is vital. And she should be kept warm but not too hot.

If we have something like four days of cold and wet, then I bring them in and warm them up.
But they go back out again.
My tortoises do have protection in the form of a coldframe or greenhouse. But both are
unheated in the Summer. The coldframe is always unheated, but the GH does have heating
for the Spring and Autumn. Which is only on from 7-30 in the morning until about four oclock
in the afternoon. As they are usually alseep by then.

[queenofjericho]

I've just heard back from the vets in East Sheen, and apparently it's septecaemia (sp). They think she 'should be alright' and that we've probably caught it in time, and god I hope they're right. He also said the scales that had fallen off were a sign of the infection, and that small pinky lines (which somehow I hadn't noticed) in her plastron were a sign she's been haemoraging (sp?)!!! Help!!

Does anyone have any experience of this type of infection? I cannot believe how ill she is internally, it doesn't sound possible that such a tiny creature can survive all that. He's put her on the right sort of antibiotics (the last lot apparently weren't even appropriate for young tortoises and can do bone damage), tube feed her, and do an xray.

He said we could take her away and treat her at home if we wanted, but we're DEFINITELY leaving here there for at least a couple of nights, I think we'd be mad not to. It really does seem like she's in good hands.

Apparently she's now 88g, rather than the 80 the last vet claimed, so she's lost 12g rather than 20.

I could kill the previous vet. I cannot believe he had a tortoise as an inpatient who had septecaemia, was anaemic, had an eye infection and was (or at least he thought she was) 20g underweight and he gave her a couple of baths and sent her home, without even telling me she'd lost weight.

That vet, who is in Chipping Norton in Oxfordshire, goes round all the zoos to treat their reptiles, which is a horrible horrible thought. And he claims to be a tortoise specialist!

By the way, I'm really really confused about the temperature thing now. This new vet in East Sheen told my husband that the temp directly under the basking lamp should be 35, and when my husband told him that at night it was about 22 - 25 degrees he said that could be too cold, even when she's healthy!! Sandy, what should I do long term?
This vet is good, isn't he? I trust him because he's on your list of recommended vets, but do you think he's wrong about this?

If anyone else has experience with CJ Hall in East Sheen, could you let me know if he gave you the same advice about temperature, and if he is defnitely good? He REALLY seems it, it's just the temperature thing that confused me.

I'm so exhausted with all the worry, I keep being late with my medication and even forgot my morphine earlier (I paid for that mistake!). If Florence is defnitely in good hands then I can begin to relax...

Can't thank you all enough for all your support and advice,
Lucy

[Jacque]

I am sorry I can't help with any of your queries, I just wanted to say that I hope your tortoise makes a full and speedy recovery x

[sandy]

Well if its septecaemia then you are lucky she is still alive. I hate to say this but it usually kills
tortoises. I would keep the temps up, but make sure you keep her hydrated. Once you get her
home. Sounds like you have finally found a good vet.
Fingers crossed for her.

[sandy]

If you think how tortoises keep in the wild, you will see that at night they do have a drop
in temps, sometimes quite a large drop. They certainly dont have temps of 35 at night.
But all the time she is ill, you do have to keep the temps up and keep them hydrated.

[Madhouse]

HI lovey - just wanted to wish you and little Florence all the luck in the world - am rooting for you both and really hope that your story has a happy ending - chin up and big hugs to you, take care