When do Graeca Graecas normally lay?

clairekentuk · 10-07-2006, 10:52 AM

What weather do they tend to go for and what time of the year do your graecas lay?

piglet · 10-07-2006, 12:53 PM

Hi Claire
Mine lay usually through the summer from mid April -September.
They usually lay in mid-morning early afternoon 11.00am-2.30pm or late afternoon 4.30pm-7.30pm.
This is just a average i have had them lay earlier and much later in the year , i have had them lay in really hot weather 28c up and cooler damper weather 22 c up ,but all mine always lay outside never indoors (greenhouse) or (laying box).
I have also had them induced with oxytocin when i feel they have carried to long for there own health usually this happens though towards the end of the year when the weather cools to much to find a suitable area outdoors .
They only thing that is regular is most if not all my females use exactly the same area or within a few feet of the same place every year
Darren

sandy · 10-07-2006, 01:32 PM

Mine tend to lay when they are ready, which is always hard to know. But will only lay when
it is warmer, usually in the greenhouse.

clairekentuk · 10-07-2006, 01:37 PM

Thats a great help. Just to clarify, does that mean they lay outside as in not in the house. Or outside of the greenhouse?
Mine have free run of the greenhouse and outdoor run, and molly has so far dug once in garden and twice in same corner of greenhouse.
I dont have a laying box unfortunately so they dont have that option. Do you think it is worth building one?

Its not warm enough for them today as they are both sitting under lamps while the males are out and about. Even on the days when they arent sniffing and pacing like today they still wont eat the weeds. Can force them to eat the occasional mallow flower. How long can they be off food before it is too long?

piglet · 10-07-2006, 03:13 PM

Hi Claire
My laying box only works for some tortoises not all will use it .
All mine prefer to lay outdoors in the paddock in general , the laying box is there for emergency's early wakers from hibernation who become gravid and late females who are not in a greenhouse situation like my horsfields who lays late clutches every autum.
I find this time of year most of my mediterranean tortoises are fussy feeders they tend to pick through what ever is provided for them i do find spraying the food with water freshens it up a bit this usually starts a feeding response .
Darren

clairekentuk · 10-07-2006, 03:44 PM

Oh thats ok then, thought id missed something.
Ive dug a hole 1.5ft square and a foot deep now in the garden near to where she dug before. I noticed she had hit hard ground and stones last attempt so its soft and sieved for her.
Anyway, she went straight over and is sniffing around.
She seems desperate to lay but being a new home and all, I want to help her find a spot if i can. She seems incredibly fussy. 3 trial holes and quite a few good scrapes.
Its only been 10 days since this started but im getting worried as she has eaten very little- max 3 flowers in that time and nothing that isnt shoved in front of her! I suppose she knows best but what are the signs it is getting too much? and how long is too long before a dose of oxytocin may be in order. Im not planning on doing this yet by the way, but what would make you take a tort to the vets for this?

piglet · 10-07-2006, 04:11 PM

Hi Claire
I know my tortoises really well and I would just say its intuition that tells me its time for oxytocin .
Also any new female that comes in is always xrayed just in case and eggs removed via oxytocin so she can settle in without the urge to hunt out a laying site as i find females reluctant to lay for ages in new surrounding.
Your tortoise is no were near starvation and mine refuse to eat prior to laying which if condition aren't favourable for her go on for several weeks .
Try a few romain lettuce leaves this should temp her into eating if your worried they rarely refuse it .
Before oxytocin were to be used you would have to xray checking eggs are present , count them possibly so you no all are laid after the drug is administered, measure them check they aren't over calcified and are able to be passed , but Claire its up to you at the end of the day but i would hold out a little longer yet if she is carrying she will lay when shes ready .
Darren

sandy · 10-07-2006, 04:14 PM

Hi Claire

My graecas are all different, one choosing to lay outside, the other in the greenhouse. Not a lot
of help. But they will choose soon<g>. I know mine can be up to three weeks of pacing if
conditions not exactly what they want.
This time of the year, mine dont have the lights in the greenhouse as its far to hot in there. This
morning at about eight oclock it was already 31 degrees in there. I only turn them on if cold for
more than a few days.

clairekentuk · 10-07-2006, 05:42 PM

Oh yeah it is quite cold here Sandy as a stones throw from the sea, it was 22 in the greenhouse at 9am when I put the lights on. Its been a dull day so they have all used the lights on and off.
Ive been leaving just one of the powersuns on over one of the soil mounds since Molly got restless.
She wasnt impressed by Romaine lettuce but will nibble mallow flowers.
Maybe I should have got them removed like you suggest Piglet as Ive not had her so long. Ive only become convinced she has eggs the last 2 weeks. Rosemary may but I wouldnt bet too much on it, she is sniffing but nothing like Molly.

Poor thing. Does it hurt them having Oxytocin in any way? I presume it gets the eggs out of the system. Im not bothered whether they are fertile at this stage, I just want to do whats best.
I have a tortoise vet and could arrange xray and oxytocin if you in your expert opinion feel this is best in Mollys case. I would very much like to see her comfortable in her surroundings. The fact she is so unsettled indicates that she isnt fully at ease. I will wait for the sun to return and see if this helps but I am thinking that this may be best if it goes on too much longer. She has only been with me since May, so not long really.

Claire

piglet · 10-07-2006, 07:48 PM

Hi Claire
Just to point out i don't have any expert opinions and certainly wouldn't class my self as an expert but just a bit of experience that might be able to help you out .

Well one thing is your tortoises are likely to go through this every time there gravid and it can as Sandy says go on for weeks and yes it looks stressful i'm sure it is to the tortoise as she becomes confused why she can't escape to find a nest site but the thing is she will lay when she's ready .
If your really bothered by this take her for an xray check her out see if she is carrying eggs then decide what you think is best with your vet but leave her another week or two as you aren't bothered about fertility it want matter how long she carrys them soon as she lays though feed her well to catch up on what shes missed , gosh a tortoise that don't like romanie lettuce thats a first for me
Darren

10-07-2006, 10:52 AM	#1
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	When do Graeca Graecas normally lay? What weather do they tend to go for and what time of the year do your graecas lay? __________________

10-07-2006, 12:53 PM	#2
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Hi Claire Mine lay usually through the summer from mid April -September. They usually lay in mid-morning early afternoon 11.00am-2.30pm or late afternoon 4.30pm-7.30pm. This is just a average i have had them lay earlier and much later in the year , i have had them lay in really hot weather 28c up and cooler damper weather 22 c up ,but all mine always lay outside never indoors (greenhouse) or (laying box). I have also had them induced with oxytocin when i feel they have carried to long for there own health usually this happens though towards the end of the year when the weather cools to much to find a suitable area outdoors . They only thing that is regular is most if not all my females use exactly the same area or within a few feet of the same place every year Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

10-07-2006, 01:32 PM	#3
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Mine tend to lay when they are ready, which is always hard to know. But will only lay when it is warmer, usually in the greenhouse. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

10-07-2006, 01:37 PM	#4
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Thats a great help. Just to clarify, does that mean they lay outside as in not in the house. Or outside of the greenhouse? Mine have free run of the greenhouse and outdoor run, and molly has so far dug once in garden and twice in same corner of greenhouse. I dont have a laying box unfortunately so they dont have that option. Do you think it is worth building one? Its not warm enough for them today as they are both sitting under lamps while the males are out and about. Even on the days when they arent sniffing and pacing like today they still wont eat the weeds. Can force them to eat the occasional mallow flower. How long can they be off food before it is too long? __________________

10-07-2006, 03:13 PM	#5
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Hi Claire My laying box only works for some tortoises not all will use it . All mine prefer to lay outdoors in the paddock in general , the laying box is there for emergency's early wakers from hibernation who become gravid and late females who are not in a greenhouse situation like my horsfields who lays late clutches every autum. I find this time of year most of my mediterranean tortoises are fussy feeders they tend to pick through what ever is provided for them i do find spraying the food with water freshens it up a bit this usually starts a feeding response . Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

10-07-2006, 03:44 PM	#6
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Oh thats ok then, thought id missed something. Ive dug a hole 1.5ft square and a foot deep now in the garden near to where she dug before. I noticed she had hit hard ground and stones last attempt so its soft and sieved for her. Anyway, she went straight over and is sniffing around. She seems desperate to lay but being a new home and all, I want to help her find a spot if i can. She seems incredibly fussy. 3 trial holes and quite a few good scrapes. Its only been 10 days since this started but im getting worried as she has eaten very little- max 3 flowers in that time and nothing that isnt shoved in front of her! I suppose she knows best but what are the signs it is getting too much? and how long is too long before a dose of oxytocin may be in order. Im not planning on doing this yet by the way, but what would make you take a tort to the vets for this? __________________

10-07-2006, 04:11 PM	#7
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Hi Claire I know my tortoises really well and I would just say its intuition that tells me its time for oxytocin . Also any new female that comes in is always xrayed just in case and eggs removed via oxytocin so she can settle in without the urge to hunt out a laying site as i find females reluctant to lay for ages in new surrounding. Your tortoise is no were near starvation and mine refuse to eat prior to laying which if condition aren't favourable for her go on for several weeks . Try a few romain lettuce leaves this should temp her into eating if your worried they rarely refuse it . Before oxytocin were to be used you would have to xray checking eggs are present , count them possibly so you no all are laid after the drug is administered, measure them check they aren't over calcified and are able to be passed , but Claire its up to you at the end of the day but i would hold out a little longer yet if she is carrying she will lay when shes ready . Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

10-07-2006, 04:14 PM	#8
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Hi Claire My graecas are all different, one choosing to lay outside, the other in the greenhouse. Not a lot of help. But they will choose soon<g>. I know mine can be up to three weeks of pacing if conditions not exactly what they want. This time of the year, mine dont have the lights in the greenhouse as its far to hot in there. This morning at about eight oclock it was already 31 degrees in there. I only turn them on if cold for more than a few days. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

10-07-2006, 05:42 PM	#9
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Oh yeah it is quite cold here Sandy as a stones throw from the sea, it was 22 in the greenhouse at 9am when I put the lights on. Its been a dull day so they have all used the lights on and off. Ive been leaving just one of the powersuns on over one of the soil mounds since Molly got restless. She wasnt impressed by Romaine lettuce but will nibble mallow flowers. Maybe I should have got them removed like you suggest Piglet as Ive not had her so long. Ive only become convinced she has eggs the last 2 weeks. Rosemary may but I wouldnt bet too much on it, she is sniffing but nothing like Molly. Poor thing. Does it hurt them having Oxytocin in any way? I presume it gets the eggs out of the system. Im not bothered whether they are fertile at this stage, I just want to do whats best. I have a tortoise vet and could arrange xray and oxytocin if you in your expert opinion feel this is best in Mollys case. I would very much like to see her comfortable in her surroundings. The fact she is so unsettled indicates that she isnt fully at ease. I will wait for the sun to return and see if this helps but I am thinking that this may be best if it goes on too much longer. She has only been with me since May, so not long really. Claire __________________

10-07-2006, 07:48 PM	#10
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Hi Claire Just to point out i don't have any expert opinions and certainly wouldn't class my self as an expert but just a bit of experience that might be able to help you out . Well one thing is your tortoises are likely to go through this every time there gravid and it can as Sandy says go on for weeks and yes it looks stressful i'm sure it is to the tortoise as she becomes confused why she can't escape to find a nest site but the thing is she will lay when she's ready . If your really bothered by this take her for an xray check her out see if she is carrying eggs then decide what you think is best with your vet but leave her another week or two as you aren't bothered about fertility it want matter how long she carrys them soon as she lays though feed her well to catch up on what shes missed , gosh a tortoise that don't like romanie lettuce thats a first for me Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

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