Bells hingeback

[SeeShell]

Could anyone give me some info on incubating bell's hingeback eggs? Specifically incubation temp, humidity and duration.
Thanks

[EJ]

28-32C Roughly 120 days to hatch. 70 to 80% humidity.

Originally Posted by SeeShell

Could anyone give me some info on incubating bell's hingeback eggs? Specifically incubation temp, humidity and duration.
Thanks

[EJ]

Used to be a subspecies of belliana... but you know how that goes.

Because of the upgrade they are now allowed to be imported into the states where as in the past as a subspecies it was not allowed to be imported.

Originally Posted by SeeShell

Thanks guys; that's great. What about specki (or something similar!) or am I just imagining this?

[EJ]

Another thing I will never understand is how they can base a species on the river system it is found in yet many are indistinguishable for the most part or are called hybrids.

The 10,000,000 question... how long does a population have to be isolated before it becomes a species if it becomes a seperate species at all? Throw that bone into a late night gathering of taxonomists and see what happens. Then there is always... Define a species...

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Taxonomists, like economists, have differing opinions. Only today, there is a very interesting story from Germany about the genetic make up of Chinese Soft shell turtles. It seems, that this highly exploited group which are being farmed in South east Asia, in almost unimaginable numbers, seem now to be not one species but a whole group of different races, sub species and maybe even full species?
Surprise? No not really. if you consider the number of river systems on the Chinese mainland, some of which Havel been geographically isolated for Centuries, if not millennia. These are the ingredients for creating different species. How is it, that north America, can have such species diversity yet China currently recognises so few?

[SeeShell]

EJ - thanks for that info on incubating

[judith ann]

Wow . We definately bow down to your superior knowledge Judyx

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Another thing I will never understand is how they can base a species on the river system it is found in yet many are indistinguishable for the most part or are called hybrids.

The 10,000,000 question... how long does a population have to be isolated before it becomes a species if it becomes a seperate species at all? Throw that bone into a late night gathering of taxonomists and see what happens. Then there is always... Define a species...

Ed, back in the early 1990's, I had the pleasure of visiting Dr Bill Mc Cord and his family in New York. His amazing collction of aquatic Chelonia, which at the time numbered several thousand live specimens included a number of species which were "new to science". Working at the time with the great Australian herpetologist, John Cann, Bill, had several specimens of Australian snake neck turtles, which were yet to be formally described. though all of them looked morphologically very similar,each was from distinct river systems, which had been isolated for several millennia. As such, it ws considered that the genetic make up would show distinct criteria for new species. if river systems, are isolated and geographically distinct, the case for new species is quite persuasive.

[EJ]

Did the genetics confirm they were seperate species? Bill was also involvend with the cuora mess also... no?

The California Mountain Kingsnake was thought to be I don't know how many different subspecies based on the mountain range they came from... DNA recently showed that they are the same species... I don' know if that's been accepted or not but it shows you how messed up things are.

Now add to this all the captive Testudo... I can't help but giggle when a keeper IDs a Testudo to the subspecies level with any certainty.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Ed, back in the early 1990's, I had the pleasure of visiting Dr Bill Mc Cord and his family in New York. His amazing collction of aquatic Chelonia, which at the time numbered several thousand live specimens included a number of species which were "new to science". Working at the time with the great Australian herpetologist, John Cann, Bill, had several specimens of Australian snake neck turtles, which were yet to be formally described. though all of them looked morphologically very similar,each was from distinct river systems, which had been isolated for several millennia. As such, it ws considered that the genetic make up would show distinct criteria for new species. if river systems, are isolated and geographically distinct, the case for new species is quite persuasive.

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Did the genetics confirm they were seperate species? Bill was also involvend with the cuora mess also... no?

The California Mountain Kingsnake was thought to be I don't know how many different subspecies based on the mountain range they came from... DNA recently showed that they are the same species... I don' know if that's been accepted or not but it shows you how messed up things are.

Now add to this all the captive Testudo... I can't help but giggle when a keeper IDs a Testudo to the subspecies level with any certainty.

I saw Dr Mc Cord again, only last year at an international symposium, and I guess you might
say he continues to add the the "mess", that is taxonomy!

By the way, the genetics did confirm that some of these specimens were indeed new species to science: Why should this be important? The case for specific habitat protection, which surely is the most serious threat to most wild species goes up very measurably, if an isolated species is discovered to be new to science.

However, to get back to the original pointnof this thread. How many species of Kinixys belliana do you consider to be valid?

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by Geomyda

I saw Dr Mc Cord again, only last year at an international symposium, and I guess you might
say he continues to add the the "mess", that is taxonomy!

By the way, the genetics did confirm that some of these specimens were indeed new species to science: Why should this be important? The case for specific habitat protection, which surely is the most serious threat to most wild species goes up very measurably, if an isolated species is discovered to be new to science.

However, to get back to the original pointnof this thread. How many species of Kinixys belliana do you consider to be valid?

Sorry Ed,
my last post should of course have said "How many sub species of Kinixys belliana do you consider to be valid"?