Interesting...Harmful properties

[swad1000]

The fact they're man made wouldn't put me off feeding them. I don't use them as they don't give me anything I can't offer with fresh plants. And they are made from cereals, which is the same reason I stopped feeding complete dog food to my newfs, as there are studies showing this can cause nutritional deficiencies. I was made aware of that by a vet about 6 years ago.

[yuna1971]

I think I would give Lily pellets if I really was struggling to find any worthwhile edible weeds. I think as I have overwintered him, things could have got alittle hairy for me back when the snow was about and it was hard to find anything. I think I agree with bits of what everyone has said really.
I dont think I could feed Lily JUST a pellet diet - although I take on board what Paul has said.
I could mix them as PART of a diet, as maybe a sort of "last resort" thing - if weeds were scarce, weather bad etc.
I do have some of the T Rex ones. Lily has eatent them, so its not as he would not eat them but I do question (what swad said) WHAT is in them. If you read the back of the tub (not sure if other brands have this) it shows a list of what is in them. And there are many LONG names of this and that and you do think ...what on EARTH is that!!
Again, the flip side is maybe we would find a great list of sorts, in foods we eat as humans, yet we still eat them.
Maybe the pellet thing isnt all that bad but in moderation, but on its own it may not be the best way. I think perhaps it is a way if all else cant be done, as in like i said, a last resort or if it was proven fact that they were beneficial.
Last note - I did actually email T Rex to ask them what exactly were these big long ingredients (sorry I have not got the names but there was a big list). I had no response.

[Kirkie]

On the whole subject of our weeds not being the same as they eat in the wild, 200 plants forming the diet of a wild tortoise, veg, pellets etc.

I'm going to stick to Hermanns because they're my thing. As of 2006, 132 plants had been identified as forming a part of a wild hermanns diet. Not all these plants are found in all locations of course. For example a study in Corsica identifed 61 plant species that the tortoises fed on...but, like most other animals tortoises have favourites and 62% of the observed feeding consisted of 9 plants. A study of tortoise faecal samples in Tuscany only revealed 27 varieties. So if you only feed your Hermanns tortoise 30 types of plant in a year you are over and above the spectrum they choose in the wild. The plants we feed in this country are not dissimilar to to those available in the med in regard to families of plants, where they differ is the growing conditions, soil type and seasonal availability. With a bit of thought you can grow med style weeds.

I ieve that if you concentrate on providing nutritionally (that dreaded word) similar feeder plants in term of variation, calcium content and even water content at various times of the year you are close to providing the diet a tortoises digestive system is designed for and a nutritional level they are designed to cope with.

I'm on a train and I'm bored.

[Ozric Jonathan]

That's useful info Dave. If we grow our food plants in soil that is different (usually richer) than typical soils in natural conditions then the resulting food is going to have a different composition as well. I think it would be impossible for me to feed totally dessicated plant material in July and August which is what the Corsican tortoises would have to manage with. Well, I wouldn't be ble to let them browse on the plants in the enclosure anyway because those will be lush and green due my very un-Corsican rainfall!

[Alan1]

I never believed that 200 plant thing anyway

I have found that out of the huge lists of edible plants I've come across, my torts are not interested in most of them and I have bought loads of plants from those lists. other plants that they do take an interest in it seems to be for only a couple of weeks then that's it. they seem more interested in UK weeds than most shop bought plants. they are particularly not interested in flowers except aubrietia and campanula.

my soil is acidic

[Alan1]

BTW Dave, did you see my UVB levels for today? interesting that the 11am matches the 1pm but the 2pm doesn't match the 10am

[Kirkie]

There are easily 200 plant species where Hermanns tortoises are, it's what they choose to eat out of those 200. The top nine, 62% favourites from the study I mentioned are very different to a captive diet

Tuberous Hawkbit, (Leontoden Tuberosum)
Mediterranean Daisy, (Urospermum Dalechampii)
Bird Vetch (Vicia Cracca)
Fragrent Virgins Bower (Clematis Flammula)
Tyrrhenian Arum Lily
Cuckoo Pintle (Arum Vulgare)
Sheepsbit (Jasione Montana)
Pink Convolvulaceae (Convolvulus Cantabrica)
Wild Madder (Rubia Peregrina)

Not your usual "safe" weeds list but if you start comparing some of them (OK not the Arum's) to safe weeds there are links, Sheepsbit is in the Campanulaceae family for example.

A good book on Med plants is worth getting. Mediterranean Wild Flowers by Neil Fletcher is good because it details the family names of the plants (over 300 species) and it also describes the terrain they grow on, including Maquis and Garigue, classic tortoise habitat in the Med. A lot of them are close relatives of the safe weeds we feed and a lot more are available to buy online as seeds. I think tortoises are sensible enough to be able to distinguish wild plants as safe or not (Wont say the same for cultivated plants). I include things like Cistus in my enclosures because they are found in tortoise habitats. They may try them once but they're not eaten routinely.

If you want to provide some dry fodder in the summer or autumn, grab a few big sow thistles, hedge mustards and plaintains and hang them in a greenhouse, coldframe or shed (or airing cupboard) whilst they're plentiful in the Spring. Slow dry works, trying to do it overnight , they disintergrate.