Interesting...Harmful properties

[swad1000]

Well you're are saying the vegetables are better than weeds as we know what is in vegetables.

The problem with that is we don't know what is in all vegetables as its not something we look for, as they don't analyze for half the stuff as its not of any interest to them. What analysis has been done shows that a lot of plants we eat has humans is moderately high in certain compounds that are potentially harmful to tortoises.

Tortoises on the whole haven't evolved to eat fruit and vegetables, they have evolved to eat what we would call weed plants.

[clairestortoise]

Originally Posted by ClareN

Hehe Claire, you are going to be a tort expert in no time! Great article xx

Thats my aim!! lol.... I got a long way yet lol

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by swad1000

Pellets are made from plants too, but you don't get to pick what plants went into the pellets, you do get to chose what plants go into your torts diet.

yes, that's where the problem is, getting the plant balance correct. not too much of this and not too much of that, how do we know we are giving the right amounts? A varied diet is all very well but you can still feed a varied diet containing too much of the wrong stuff. (I do this to myself )

I don't feed pellets but I wouldn't rule it out, not after seeing the growth results of pellet fed torts.

They might not get pellets in the wild but neither do they get the plants that they would in the wild nor the sun nor the humidity...

In fact, the contents of pellets are possibly closer to what they do get in the wild than the limited plants we give them.

I wouldn't rule out anything that has been proven to be successful, plants or pellets or vivs or anything

[swad1000]

Have you looked at the ingredients of pellets? Its 90% cereal from the ones I've looked into.

Cereals are pretty much man made with moderen cereal crops. I've also never seen any reference to tortoises consuming any cereals in the wild.

So how pellets are closer than a weed diet to there natural diet I don't understand.

Also you should look into cereal diets in other animals, there have been a few studies highlighting possible problems with diets high in cereals.

Also looking at pictures doesn't show you the health of an animal, I know I need to take a calcium supplement, Vitamin D, Iron and have B12 injections. But you can't tell that from a picture.

[Alan1]

The 'in the wild' thing has worn off a bit on me because they are not in the wild now and their conditions are not what they are in the wild. using that same 'in the wild' theory then why provide the torts with mercury vapour lights? They don't have them in the wild and who is to say that although torts may look healthy, the lights are not doing harm long term? they can't be kept the same as in the wild unless you live in the Med region so who's to say they are not being harmed simply by keeping them captive?

who's to say that 40 years from now, people won't be saying .. "jeez I can't believe they used MVB bulbs and put their torts in tables" ?

Anyway, my point is that if there is a chance of improving their diet, health or any other aspect of tort keeping then I'm open to anything, no blinkers on here. Stand still and you get left behind

[swad1000]

I'm open to anything, but before I take it up because its the new thing, I look into it as best I can, and several tortoise experts have raised concerns about pellets diets, and there is other research nothing to do with torts that raises questions about the ingredients used in pellets.

If anyone can show me a proper study into pellet diets I'd really appreciate it, because I've never been able to find one.

As for "in the wild" no there are kept in captivity, and what we look to do is recreate the conditions in captivity that they need, why not feed them steak and chips if thats the case? We don't as they wouldn't eat steak and chips naturally.


To your last point, fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

[EquestrianBabe]

Yes, Claire is brilliant when it comes to tort care She is brilliant in her own unique way, too. She's kind, funny, knowledgable, caring. What more could you want in a friend?

[16 shells]

[quote=swad1000;357651]I'm open to anything, but before I take it up because its the new thing, I look into it as best I can, and several tortoise experts have raised concerns about pellets diets, and there is other research nothing to do with torts that raises questions about the ingredients used in pellets.

If anyone can show me a proper study into pellet diets I'd really appreciate it, because I've never been able to find one.

As for "in the wild" no there are kept in captivity, and what we look to do is recreate the conditions in captivity that they need, why not feed them steak and chips if thats the case? We don't as they wouldn't eat steak and chips naturally.
I think it is over 30 years research, on pelleted foods first dry food for the Gallopogos Tortoise, obviously has been fine tuned over the years, it's not a miracle food or rocket science, in todays technology, you take some natural plant's anaylse them find the nearest common brother plant, add nutrients, vit's needed. The best Koi food on the market, contains Spiriulina and other vit's amongst other's, why, because they looked at what the Japs had been feeding for thousands of years, and simply coppied it.
I have seen localy some very nice specimens 20-30 year olds, fed on a mixed diet of weeds/pellets, and have taken on three keepers advice, one has 50 years experience with tortoises.

[swad1000]

Pelleted diets may have been available for 30 years, that doesn't mean 30 years research. Also as I have said before pellets as part of a mixed diet may be Ok, but pelleted diets aren't sold as a supplement to a mixed diet, they are sold as a one stop shop.

Humans have smoked tobacco for hundreds of years, research into the effects have only taken place in the last 50-60 years. In the early 1900's smoking was actually promoted as being healthy as it killed germs, I doubt you will find many that would agree that smoking has health benefits today.

[Alan1]

Well, the fact that they are man made wouldn't put me off feeding pellets if that's what I intended to do. Nutrobal and Reptiboost is man made too, as are the antibiotics given for RNS and the artificial sun we give them courtesy of Mega-ray bulbs and I doubt all or any of those have been tested for 30 years. In the wild, (it sounds like Uncle Albert.. in the Navy, I was in the Navy you know ) the plants available to torts are not all the same as we get here, only a tiny amount are, so feeding captive UK torts that tiny amount of what's available in the wild doesn't equate to keeping them as close to being in the wild as possible, not in my opinion. They are a million miles from it and they would be very unlikely to survive for any length of time without any of the man made stuff we give them already