Very poorly looking Torts for sale

[tuftybunny]

Asking for some advice really. Hubby and I went for a wander to the local reptile specialist just to see what he had for sale.

He had a number of Hermanns for sale that were quite large around 5 years old I would guess from the size but they were in really bad shape. Horrifically disfigured lumpy shells and they were almost rectangular in shape. I couldn't get a pic as we were the only ones in the shop and it would have been too obvious. They didn't look happy either.

Should I report them and to whom, or is there nothing that can be done.

Some hatchlings looked good with lovely smooth shells but the others really distressed me.. Sorry being a bit of a wuss really but it does concern me that people will be paying out around £140 for a tort that is clearly going to have problems and going to need veterinary care.

[Box girl]

This is a difficult one. The shop owner probably bought them like that. I think I would go along and have a chat and talk through correct husbandry so that when sold the correct info is passed on. If the tort has MBD then advise to see a vet.

[EJ]

I don't see any point in responding to this post except to acknowledge that I read it and didn't like it for obvious reasons... and it has nothing to do with the shop or the tortoises for sale.

[alley cat]

Originally Posted by EJ

I don't see any point in responding to this post except to acknowledge that I read it and didn't like it for obvious reasons... and it has nothing to do with the shop or the tortoises for sale.

If you have a personal issue about people posting these kind of worries and asking for advise, then stay off of the thread, you just upset people with your snide little digs at the OP.

[EJ]

Wait a second. I'm upset by this type of post. As a member of this forum(noun, a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas.)

The OP has a personal issue which they felt the need to present to a public forum. I responded as an expression of my idea.

Sorry if this upset you or anyone. This kind of post upsets me because it is petty and judgemental. It takes information out of context and is presented in a very incomplete manner that could actually be interpeted as slanderous.

If you or anyone does not want to see such responses... leave the door closed.

This group is slanted torwards conservation and the good care of chelonians. I don't see how witchhunts are part of this particular process.

If there is any real care... leave the establisment in question and let the tortoises die. The shop keeper will not replace them because there is no market. If an uninformed keeper buys the tortoise and cannot 'save' the poor creature that person will not return(hopefully) and the shop keeper will loose the business.

The kind of post the OP posted does not educate. It poisons the mind of the new keeper because the information is incomplete and quite biased.

Originally Posted by alley cat

If you have a personal issue about people posting these kind of worries and asking for advise, then stay off of the thread, you just upset people with your snide little digs at the OP.

[tuftybunny]

Ed I am intrigued as to how my post could be slanderous, at no point do I mention the pet shop involved or give any clue as to it's location. I know my info shows where in the country I live but there are many reptile outlets in the vicinity. I purposely kept it vague as I dont know if the owner of the shop is a fellow member of this forum.
I am by no means a veterinary expert and you will note that at no point did I state they were suffering from mbd, only that I had concerns regarding their growth and their shell formations. It may be that a fellow member of the forum had seen similar and could try to reassure me that with love and the correct care there it's every chance the torts may have a healthy life despite their looks now.
Your personal response makes me wonder if the shop in question is your shop or whether you know who is.

[Beverley]

I do see we're you're coming from Ed, but it's a bit harsh !!
The person who posted this may be new to tortoise keeping not an old hand like you
Therefore seeing tortoises that have clearly not been raised as they should, is upsetting. It still upsets me to see tortoises that could have had a better start. I know around here reptile shops are closing all the time, their will soon be none for me to be threw out of

[EJ]

Now days I've actually been threatened with slander and I try to be very careful with my choice of words. I was just citing a worse case scenario. Who knows if a shop recognised your post and could put together a situation... I've seen some strange stuff in the tortoise 'community'.

I'm bothered by the apparent judgemental report that seems to be presented out of context.

I have quite a few friends world wide who are basically in the pet trade. All are well intentioned and passionate about their interests. Most started their business as part of their hobby and expanded it to a business.

I've mention in the past that anyone who trys to do this strictly as a means of money invariably fail.

Photos would help in making a more subjective opinion but I don't think there is any place for a judgement(least ye be judged... and all that).

When I hear suggestions of contacting DEFRA and all that my blood boils. It screams 'police state' and... well... you know. There are situations where authorities should be contacted but I think it should be an extreme last resort.

btw... I love your apparently civil response.

Originally Posted by tuftybunny

Ed I am intrigued as to how my post could be slanderous, at no point do I mention the pet shop involved or give any clue as to it's location. I know my info shows where in the country I live but there are many reptile outlets in the vicinity. I purposely kept it vague as I dont know if the owner of the shop is a fellow member of this forum.
I am by no means a veterinary expert and you will note that at no point did I state they were suffering from mbd, only that I had concerns regarding their growth and their shell formations. It may be that a fellow member of the forum had seen similar and could try to reassure me that with love and the correct care there it's every chance the torts may have a healthy life despite their looks now.
Your personal response makes me wonder if the shop in question is your shop or whether you know who is.

[Pussygalore]

if the poster thought the torts were/are in a bad state shell wise why not simply ask the shop why they are like that, they may have been dumped on the doorstep or taken in by the shop. There is a shop near me which had this happen with two very poorly shaped horsfeilds they were left outside in the bad weather in a box. The shop managed to find a home for them but in the meantime were caring for them, there's nothing wrong with politely asking or pointing out that something doesn't have any water etc, give the benefit of the doubt and if your not satisfied with the answer then think about doing something further.

[EJ]

I do feel a bit guilty after the OPs response. I committed the same crime in taking information out of context but I was only presented with what I saw.

I too am bothered by tortoises that have not been raised properly. I've taken many but I try so hard not to be judgemental... it does not help to do so.

Did you see the link to the mixed tortoise video? There was an added video that was linked to that with a girl who had one of the most deformed sulcatas I've ever seen. She is sitting there petting the tortoise. I thought that was sad but also thought that it is none of my business... I'll focus on the things I can make a difference in.

I've been lucky. The shops I've been in are quite nice for the most part... but then... my perspective might be a little different.

To the OP... I'll take this opportunity to appologise if I seemed to come off a little harsh.

Originally Posted by Beverley

I do see we're you're coming from Ed, but it's a bit harsh !!
The person who posted this may be new to tortoise keeping not an old hand like you
Therefore seeing tortoises that have clearly not been raised as they should, is upsetting. It still upsets me to see tortoises that could have had a better start. I know around here reptile shops are closing all the time, their will soon be none for me to be threw out of