Limping tortoise

[Nellie and Morla]

Morla, the one with the mutilated beak if anyone remembers, has had problems recently. The place that sells the pellets we were giving her until she could eat leaves again stopped stocking them and ran out of the flavour she's used to. They still had other flavours in but she refused to eat. She has lost a considerable amount of weight but has started eating again. I'm glad to say we are able to get her back on leaves as long as we chop them for her and she's eating these and avoiding the pellets (we use them so she has a surface she can pick the greens off of, it's still difficult for her to pick them off a solid surface). She is very underweight but is at least eating again. However, today she has started limping. Her energy levels are understandably low so she has been lethargic for a while so it's unlikely she has caused herself injury, though possible. I found out that it could possibly be a sign of bladder stones with high protein and dehydration causing it, with her open beak dehydration is possible. I will see if it goes over the weekend and if not will try to get her into a vets. I was simply hoping someone could advise me of the cost to expect for such a surgery, it would be nice to have an idea of what to try to grab together.

[Nellie and Morla]

Oh and also if anyone could advise me on how to tell if she's underweight, dehydrated, or both. That would really help, all I have to go off is she's light and skinny but she was losing weight when refusing to eat and still drinking fine. Now I'm not sure if there is enough water with her urates. But unless I watch her 24/7 to see her go I can't tell for sure on that one. So yeah how do you tell the difference between dehydrated and underweight and any tips for either of those?

[burnt toast]

Hello I remember her

You need to measure her accurately & weigh her in grams then use this link to calculate her result http://www.ahailey.f9.co.uk/cond.htm

To tell if she's dehydrated look at urates, if they are greyish or gritty this is a sign of dehydration & another way to tell is to look at her eyes, do they look sunken? (do you have an old photo to compare if you cant tell?)

Also look at the soft skin around her neck, inside shell area, does it look plump & well filled out? (& I don't know if I have dreamt this!! but on humans you can pick up a tiny bit of skin & see how quickly it returns to normal think! I read this about torts?)


I would begin adding abidec (or another brand) of liquid vitamins to her bath. This will provide extra vitamins/minerals which will help support her while shes not eating well.

What were the pellets she was enjoying? I wonder if anyone could get them & send on to you. I wouldn't mind

Has her beak improved at all?

[Nellie and Morla]

Hey, long time no see. It has been a while since I've managed to get the site up. Some cookie cache problem XD

Yeah I do need to get back into that habit. The vet did check her during her corrective trim on Tuesday and commented that it was concerning him it was so low. It seemed to just be weight loss at the time but I worry that she might have been drinking less due to being less active with her starving herself. I'll have to stake out her viv tomorrow so I can check her urates properly then. I am perfectly willing to and tomorrow is free so no worries there. It's sometimes hard to tell if her eyes are sunken because she gets conjunctivitis which puffs up the lids. It's caused by a vitamin A deficiency in her and was sorted but she stopped eating and after a week she had conjunctivitis again. I'll try getting a picture but my camera doesn't like focusing that close, hence no real comparatives beyond that horrendous picture.

She certainly isn't filled out but as I say that much is hard to tell how much is from not eating for so long. Her legs look reasonably plump until the very top and inside the front is sunken in, her neck looks scrawny too. I'll try the skin thing

I'll try getting hold of some. Not sure how quickly I can get it but if it might help it's worth it.

She was eating cucumber pellets. But if she is dehydrated she needs to come off them anyway until she's rehydrated. They're high protein and the combination is a cause of bladder stones. No reason to risk it now that she can eat her greens again.

Her beak is a bit better, it doesn't look like a mad hole anymore. Just kinda looks like she's permanently sitting with it agape when it's closed. The vet says it's probably going to take another 3 years to grow back. She gets her trims at a vet recommended on here who isn't a specialist but is experienced in trims and will deal with repeat prescriptions from the specialist, as well as minor first aid. If there's a problem she goes to a different specialist to where the incident happened. She's terrified of vets now. She's quickly learnt all the tricks to get her out and is pretty difficult. No one blames her though.

The other is perfectly healthy and has spring fever XD The annual growth was barely overgrown but he managed to catch it on something and a crack appeared up the side so the crack had to be trimmed out in case it got it caught again. So Nellie is sporting a unique beak this year but nothing extreme.

I'm still hoping that Morla's limp is nothing. It usually is when stuff like this happens. You just worry so much.

[egyptiandan64]

A picture of her leg would help greatly Sadly the link Lynn supplied won't work for Horsfields but this will

When you go to the vet, get an x-ray as that will tell you if there is a stone. Stones aren't cause by protein (high or low) but are caused by oxalic acid combining with calcium. Being dehydrated would prevent very tiny stones from being flushed from the bladder. If they stay there, they are added to making a very large stone. The leg problem could also be an infection or gout.

Danny

[burnt toast]

Sorry I could have swore she was a Herman

[Nellie and Morla]

Thanks, I hadn't clicked on the link yet but I'm sure I'd have realised if I saw Jackson's anywhere on it. I know it's a different ratio and have it printed off.

Ah, see what happens when I listen to the Tortoise Trust. They were the ones saying it's protein. Thanks for the detail, any advice on what leaves I can buy for her. We don't normally give them 'weeds' (sorry but we normally refer to them as herbs in our house) because there isn't anywhere trustworthy nearby to gather them except for dandelion leaves and there's not much of those yet even. Plus they are so abnormally fussy.

The limping only started this evening so it's still possible she's just caught it, they do that sometimes. It's why I'll wait to see if it eases tomorrow but of course I can't book her in on a Sunday so Monday we'll see. I can't feel or see anything off what little look and feel I can get. She's just a little paranoid given all the pokes and prods since the beak incident.

[Nellie and Morla]

Gah, difficult creature. Her right eye looked distinctly sunken first thing this morning, the left slightly. Since her soak I can't tell if they're sunken or not but this is how the day goes with her eyes lately. I couldn't get her to come out enough to even look at her baggies (the top of legs, under shell, neck) let alone have a chance of a picture. I've left her to calm down before I attempt pictures because she wouldn't bring her head out enough for a picture after that. I don't know how successful I'll be with her being rather sensitive and my camera being rubbish. I will do my best though.

She is still limping, appears to be slightly dragging the left hind but it's all a little less so than yesterday. She wouldn't touch her greens though she may have been desperate to warm up after her bath (she likes to sit in it until she's too cold). I sprayed them so she'd definitely get moisture that way but it might be to no avail. Considering a tiny bit of cucumber to get some moisture in and to attempt to encourage her to keep going.

I'm not sure if it's worth emailing the specialist to get an estimate of cost in worst case scenario as well as how quickly he could book her in. There are some convenience issues too as we have no transport.

[Nellie and Morla]

For the eye




For the front (yes that's the best I could get of inside) and so everyone who remembers the horrendous picture of her beak for comparison


For the back, again the best I can show you of inside right now


I'm aware it doesn't really show much of the inside. She automatically suspects anything will result in something nasty now and takes a long time to come around if at all. It's an improvement to her first days after when she just hid under her heat lamp in her shell and if she noticed anyone walk in while she was drinking or eating she'd quickly withdraw into her shell.

[egyptiandan64]

No she isn't dehydrated If the leg isn't swollen (which you said it wasn't) and she can pull it in but not put weight on it, something on the inside is pressing against the nerve that goes to that leg. So either a stone or eggs.

Danny