Well Worth a Read

[yuna1971]

Right ok....

[Alan1]

no skim reading either

[Anita Sayles]

It was a good read, the thing that stuck in my mind was the drying effect lamps had on the shell. Particularly where ambient temps are low and the tortoise has to spend a lot of time under the lamps.

[Alan1]

aye but the sun is much hotter than lamps so don't know how that works. interesting that vivs are supposedly low in humidity too, that's contrary to what you read elsewhere

[Anita Sayles]

Originally Posted by caledonia

aye but the sun is much hotter than lamps so don't know how that works. interesting that vivs are supposedly low in humidity too, that's contrary to what you read elsewhere

Hmm I guess the whole practice of keeping tortoises is moving forward every day as new information is available. It's a shame that pyramiding is so common, folks try hard to avoid it with diets and bathing etc, but little seems to help.

[swad1000]

Originally Posted by caledonia

aye but the sun is much hotter than lamps so don't know how that works.

From what I've read torts don't sit out during the hottest parts of the day though, the air temp will be hot enough for it to retreat to a shady spot, where it will most likely be slightly higher in humidity, and miss the most drying time of the day.

It will also more than likely be more active in the morning as soon as it warms up, and in the evenings again when the sun isn't so strong, and when humidity tends to be higher.

[Bindi]

Originally Posted by caledonia

aye but the sun is much hotter than lamps so don't know how that works. interesting that vivs are supposedly low in humidity too, that's contrary to what you read elsewhere

If the sun is out then it has a warming effect all over, the ground, rocks, as well as the overall ambient temps.

If you're keeping a tort in a room that isn't too warm, then it will bask directly under the lamp for longer (I would think) to warm up. It may be getting too much heat directly above to raise it's core temperature, thus the possibility of burning or drying out the carapace.

When we were getting alot of posts aout torts, especially Horsfields slowing down, Ed made a comment about ambient room temps being too low, and that he keeps his (active) horsfields in a tropical room where the ambient temps don't drop below a certain temp. Sorry, can't remember the exact temp and haven't got time at the mo to do a search but it was in the region of 20 degrees.

When we keep torts indoors we tend to put a powerful lamp on stright away in the morning and then wallop, the tort is in the glare of a big ball of heat and light, instead of doing it gradually, as in when the sun rises and warms up the day.

[Alan1]

I thought that too and in fact my torts actually do keep out of the sun under a bush or a slate and come out (from under the slate at least) with dampness on their shell but that article says ..

It is critically important to address one very common piece of misinformation in this context. It has been claimed that juvenile tortoises (for example, Testudo graeca) spend most of their time in the wild in “humid” microclimates where ambient conditions are in the range of 90-100% RH. This is completely false. One part of our study involved taking many thousands of measurements in the natural habitat to establish the actual conditions experienced. Our methodology involved the use of miniature automatic data loggers that recorded both temperature and humidity with a very high degree of precision. We took recordings over a complete 12-month cycle in several key habitats. We also attached loggers to tortoises and recovered them later to collect the data. In total, we collected 18,000 data points detailing humidity alone. What we found - in brief - was that juvenile tortoises were not experiencing substantially different levels of humidity than adults. While it is perfectly true that tortoises make extensive use of selected microclimates, the levels recorded in these were in the range of 34-60% RH. The sole occasions when levels in excess of 90% were recorded were during thunderstorms and episodes of rain. In the semi-arid environments of Ameria and Murcia (which are very similar to those found in most of North Africa) rainfall is not a regular occurrence, even during peak periods of tortoise activity. In total, we found that tortoises were only exposed to levels of humidity that could reasonably be described at “high” (80%>) for 2% of the total time recorded. While foraging humidity could be as low as 20%, but this was followed by retreat into vegetative microclimates where typical levels average around 45-50%. Measurements were taken from tortoises in all activity phases, include those buried in scrapes. This data accords with that previously recorded (though not in such detail) in Morocco, Turkey and Tunisia. Other workers have also conducted extensive humidity data collection from tortoise burrows of the Desert tortoise, in North America. This data also fails to reveal any evidence whatsoever of the availability of “humid” hides offering relative humidities of “90-100%”. In fact, levels in the arid desert regions of Arizona occupied by Gopherus agasssizii are even lower than those we recorded here in Almeria and Murcia. If indeed (as claimed) the main reason why wild tortoises in arid regions do not suffer from “pyramiding” is because they make extensive use of “caves” or “vegetation” offering “90-100% RH” retreats then all of our local Testudo graeca graeca in Spain would be very lumpy and deformed indeed, because no such facilities exist. This is a semi-arid to arid habitat with some of the lowest annual rainfall in Europe, with an average precipitation of just 226mm per year (the UK receives almost 600mm)

When indoors my torts also go away into a pot or whatever, away from the bulb at the 'cooler end' in the middle of the day.

This info below contradicts what I've read on vivs

We know from earlier tests we conducted with tortoise vivarium design, that many of these create extremely dry conditions, with sustained relative humidities as low as 12%

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Bindi

If the sun is out then it has a warming effect all over, the ground, rocks, as well as the overall ambient temps.

If you're keeping a tort in a room that isn't too warm, then it will bask directly under the lamp for longer (I would think) to warm up. It may be getting too much heat directly above to raise it's core temperature, thus the possibility of burning or drying out the carapace.

When we were getting alot of posts aout torts, especially Horsfields slowing down, Ed made a comment about ambient room temps being too low, and that he keeps his (active) horsfields in a tropical room where the ambient temps don't drop below a certain temp. Sorry, can't remember the exact temp and haven't got time at the mo to do a search but it was in the region of 20 degrees.

When we keep torts indoors we tend to put a powerful lamp on stright away in the morning and then wallop, the tort is in the glare of a big ball of heat and light, instead of doing it gradually, as in when the sun rises and warms up the day.

Sorry Bind, my post above was replying to swad but I was too slow .

That makes sense what you are saying there. I remember reading somewhere (it might have been kirkie or jonathan osric) had lamps come on almost gradually - lower watt first on a timer then stronger one in middle of day.

room temp is as you say important, I've often switched my lamps off for a couple of hours if there has been an unexpectedly warm day and the torts still charge about until it eventually drops too low.

BTW, I think it was 80f Ed's temps

[Anita Sayles]

That's the way I read it Bindi, I found that quite worrying.
Substrates are also much colder out of a lamps 'range'. While I agree there should be a cooler area I do not think large areas of the table should be cold.