Getting food ready for first Tort

[houseofcutler]

Thanks Cal and Yuna - I wasn't aware that UVB couldn't go through glass - I was looking at this as more of a bonus that essential.

To give you some more info:

The window in my front room has wooden blinds which block some or all of the light depending on how they are set. And the angle of the house/street etc means we don't get flooded with beams of sunshine. The table will not be directly in the (Bay)window it will be on the side wall next to it so really any light it gets is fairly non direct. Ill try and take a picture tonight to post on here.
This is something I will definitely monitor as the weather changes

I have just finished building my table and am about to start testing temperatures (hopefully after I go and but some top soil tonight) and plan to test a lot of variables before I tell the breeder to bring my tort over.

Ive been talking to my breeder (Listed on the SW list) about UVB and she said:

"After talking with several people in other countries who do just this, I decided to experiment with some of my own tortoises a couple of years ago. Other than outdoor uvb my own young tortoises have been raised with supplements in place of uvb tubes and bulbs. Once a bulb has gone into use the usuable uvb starts to deteriorate and so there is no way of knowing (unless you have a uvb metre)just how much they are getting.
Rather than risk my babies not getting enough uvb indoors I supplement them daily with Nekton MSA or Nutrobal and give them plenty of bright light too. I use the uvb tubes but don't worry about the reduction in uvb over time so long as their supplements are getting into the babies. The results of this years and last years hatchlings speak for themselves, they have rock hard shells, brilliant mobility and good bone structure. They are the smoothest babies I have ever raised and last years are doing well with new owners. I can't stress enough the need for them to have bright lights for the feel good factor, as this is just as important as the supplements.
This does not mean that I would advise everyone to do things this way, just
saying that it works and takes away the worry of broken lamps."

This is a topic I spent a lot of time looking into as it was a major concern when I first started looking into what I needed to get set up.

My plan was to try things this way for now although I should mention I hope to set up and outside enclosure for the torts as soon as the weather improves in the Spring.

I hope this eases your concerns - I now you guy are just trying to ensure everyone looks after their torts correctly...

[pagan queen]

I don't use UV lighting either and find my torts are fine, with smooth growth, healthy appetites and all round general good health. I use supplements and feed weeds, as well as pellets. If feeding pellets one or two days a week there is no need to use supplements on those days as the pellets contain D3.

[gwenq]

I use UV light, use Nutrabol, feed only weeds and flowers and have never fed a pellet and my tort is very healthy, active and has a very smooth hard shell. I have had him from 6 months old, he is now almost 13 years.

I suppose there is something to be said for both ways!!

[houseofcutler]

Originally Posted by pagan queen

I don't use UV lighting either and find my torts are fine, with smooth growth, healthy appetites and all round general good health. I use supplements and feed weeds, as well as pellets. If feeding pellets one or two days a week there is no need to use supplements on those days as the pellets contain D3.

Nice to see I am not the only one not using UV lighting. Thats good to know about the pellets - I have been thinking about getting some and have read a lot of threads about them includings caledonians thread about how to help torts eat pre alpine. But I cant decide whihc are the best or most appropriate ones to get for my THBs

Which kind do you use and have you tried others?

[gwenq]

It is good to know that if my combi bulb blows I don't need to panic about getting a replacement. I could use a spotlight for a period. I might look into feeding pellets as well, are they good for helping torts to put weight on or are they a supplement? or handy to have if no weeds available?

I think Sam feels too heavy - when I lift him he feels really heavy and solid - he is 14 cm and 601 gms - I have a Jackson chart but have never been able to work it out!!

[pagan queen]

I use Komodo Pellets. The torts love them and they are good for weight gain if fed more often than the usual 2 or 3 times a week. I'm not sure if pre alpine has D3 in it though, someone else can give you more info on that as I don't use them.
I generally use the Komodo through the winter when there are fewer weeds about. My torts aren't too keen on the salad so the pellets are a great help.

[Ozric Jonathan]

My own view about UVB is a bit different to some of those above and I wouldn't advise anyone to try and raise a mediterranean tortoise without any UVB at all. A tortoise on a table in a room is getting 0 UVB unless we provide it.

The person Houseofcutler quoted is using a mixture of supplements and artificial UVB. Their view is that the lamps might be worn out so I'll supplement as well. That regime seems to me unwise - the keeper doesn't know if there is any artificial UVB at all and they are supplementing anyway? Surely it must be best to do one or the other. Either knowingly provide a suitable amount of UVB with suitable lamps OR provide Vit D in a supplement instead, dosing at the required rate for the animal in question.

The idea that UVB lamps are unreliable, dodgy and might be worn out is an outdated one. If you get one of the latest lamps you know how much UVB is coming off it and for how long. And they cost about £30 providing heat and bright light and UVB. OK for £5 you can have a halogen lamp that provides some fuzzy dull yellow light and some heat.
Mediterranean tortoises are used to very bright light.

One advantage that decent UVB and heat lamps have over supplementation is that the heat is provided at the same time as the UVB which enables the tortoise to metabolise calcium. With a supplement the Vit D is just in the bloodstream the whole time.

The Vit D dosing instructions on supplements are frankly a joke. e.g. "blow a small pinch of product in the general direction of some leaves and serve". The supplement is basically useless a few months after opening the packet, and the smallest quantity offerd for sale would supplement a single tortoise for years. There are a lot of badly supplemented tortoises out there!

[pagan queen]

Different people have different ways. If they work there isn't a problem.

[TillyTortoise]

Originally Posted by gwenq

I think Sam feels too heavy - when I lift him he feels really heavy and solid - he is 14 cm and 601 gms - I have a Jackson chart but have never been able to work it out!!

I take it Sam is a Hermanns? If so his ideal weight is 554g

[NATURALIS]

I'll 3rd that Al