laws restricting sale of tortoises
 

I realize this doesn't apply to all tortoise types, but the law laid down by defra :e mail (wildlife.enforce@defra.gsi.gov.uk) are quite strict.
Apparantly it is against the law to sell or purchase certain regional tortoises eg graecia which is a region A as specified, without an id certificate (issued by the EU) stating the owners details and tortoises identity plus being pinned and chipped.
So I'm wondering what happens to all those tortoises still alive and healthy in this country which may have been imported illegally from the wild some 30 years ago, but since these types can live to 100 or more and indeed outlive their owners, how can these be passed on to responsible would be owners???

Can they be swaped ie a herman for a spurthigh?

animals imported from the Mediterranean region prior to 1984 were not illegally imported. There is a large population of these residual animals typically that have been kept as pets for 40/50 years. As their owners become infirm, or pass away these animals are often re homed by the various Chelonia groups across the country. They will be "gifted" or loaned to the new home and hopefully, the animals can spend the rest of their potentially long life in the care of new Chelonia enthusiasts.
It is for this reason, the work of people such as Joy Bloor at the "Tortoise Garden" in Cornwall was so valuable.
Likewise, the rehoming work done by organisations such as The British Chelonia Group, the Tortoise Trust and a number of regional groups is so important.

Thanks I ve got that clearer now.
But is it possible to obtain verification papers if you ve got one ie a region A that was brought over after 1984 and for whatever reason - ignorance mostly - you ve bought or obtained one without papers? If you could do this you could still sell the tortoise couldn't you - or have I totally missed it!

No you still wouldn't beable to get papers. You can only rehome or gift the tortoise I think

always asking defra especially if you can trace its history and get letters to support that, I managed to get A10 for my Ibera female (sold last year) as I was able to trace her back to the 70's.

Thats good :D

So might I beable to get a certificate for Toby, my old TGG. The owner died and I took him on. The daughter was rehoming him and she had him for at least 40 years. Would I just need a letter from her?

The import of wild collected Testudo spp from the Mediterranean after 1984 has been banned. It is only in recent years, that Captive farmed animals bred in Southern Europe have been allowed to be imported with relevant CITES paperwork. Those animals, should always have the correct accompanying licence paperwork. There are no exemptions.
That said, the species Agrionemys (Testudo) horsfieldi, known by the common names of Russian Tortoise, or four toed Tortoise are not covered currently by these same CITES requirements and therefore are imported, usually from countries such as Uzbekistan quite legally and sold in the European Pet trade. Since the mid 1980's this species of Tortoise has been the most common seen in the pet trade.
The captive farmed Testudo hermanni, Testudo g ibera and Testudo graeca have for the most part only featured in the pet trade in the last decade or so, when Farms principally in Slovenia, and more recently Macedonia and Turkey have been exporting their captive bred stock. All of these, definitely require legal CITES documentation prior to shipment.

if you can get a letter from the daughter to support the application and as long as the tortoise was in the uk before 1984 you should get one but you would need to get it chipped first

The interesting thing is that DEFRA do not keep copies of these certs or those that you send back to get reissued for whatever reason. Therefore I wonder the following:

• How do DEFRA know if you have a cert or not
• It appears unfair that if you lose the cert they will not issue another one as they have no records
• Therefore what is the point of a certificate?

I know the above as fact by the way :)