Chelonian Meeting Kent 28-2-2010?

[EJ]

Are we going to get a recap of this meeting? Was it well received? Where some questions answered? Where the answers believable?

[ClareandCo]

Originally Posted by EJ

Are we going to get a recap of this meeting? Was it well received? Where some questions answered? Where the answers believable?

A very enjoyable and informative meeting - with plenty of questions and plenty of answers.

[Alan1]

Was it a meeting from last year 28-2-2010?

were you at one today Ed? today is 27-2-2011 is that what you meant?

[ClareandCo]

Originally Posted by caledonia

Was it a meeting from last year 28-2-2010?

were you at one today Ed? today is 27-2-2011 is that what you meant?

I didn't even notice that! Its quite tiring putting out chairs and serving tea etc!

[EJ]

No even worth responding to but...

For those of you with limited mental capacity or those who cannot realize an obvious mistake and forgive it... I'm talking about todays meeting.

Which... btw... must have been quite enlightenign.

Originally Posted by caledonia

Was it a meeting from last year 28-2-2010?

were you at one today Ed? today is 27-2-2011 is that what you meant?

[EJ]

Most normal people would have read it as the obvious... as you did.

Originally Posted by ClareandCo

I didn't even notice that! Its quite tiring putting out chairs and serving tea etc!

[ClareandCo]

Originally Posted by EJ

Most normal people would have read it as the obvious... as you did.

I do like to think I am fairly normal, but others may well disagree.

There were a good few SW people at the meeting, so no doubt one of them will add something. I'm off to bed in a moment, got to be up about 5.30am!

[Kirkie]

I thought that the presentation on the farm and a UK rearing facilty were good on the whole with Chris voicing his own concerns over some aspects, such as hatchling care, that he witnessed in Slovenia as well as other chelonian concerns such as the proliferation of Horsfields tortoises into the trade, ranching methods and the fate of the parent animal.

*As a tortoise keeper I was not overly impressed with the UK facility, it reminded me of pictures I have seen of small mammal rearing facilites which I suppose have the same function, both are growing on operations after all. It is what it is; functional. The lack of provision of standing water also irked me. The justification was that tortoises in the wild dont drink standing water. I have many photographs in many books which refute this idea. Provision of water via a spray bar may replicate rainfall but we were told the substrate consists of wood shavings, so there would be no collection of standing water from which the tortoises could drink. The main water provision appears to be via dietry intake.

*I felt that to berate cites legislation as overly beaurocratic and unworkable but to have complete faith in the legality of the slovenian breeding stock because they have CITES approval a little hard to swallow as was the continuation of the anti import, uk breeders "cartel" theme which belongs in the same history book as "there are no tortoise farms".

This all appears rather negative but I do appreciate Chris Newman taking the time to present his views.

I did note down some facts and figures if anyone is interested?

[Kirkie]

Oh yeah. Nice to see all the SW folks there, new faces, old faces, normal faces.

[EJ]

I'm guessing that any tortoise keeper that is not into herps in general is going to take this point of view.

Wether you like it or not there is a herp industry and it is bending over backwards to properly take care of the animals... which... the cost gets passed along to the consumer.

I can't understand how any keeper could be 'concerned' about the successful captive proliferation of any species.

As to the fate of the parents... they will be cared for until they die. I understand the farm pictured has been in operation for well over 25 years.

The standing water... stagnates... gets deficated in... the spray system used is very well designed and very well researched. Whatch your tortoises the next time it rains and watch how they drink. Not only do they get internal hydration... they get the external hydration that is believed to be important. The spraying is on a very short timer. The substrate is allowed to dry out between cycles. Again... it was very well thought out and implemented. If you could see some facilities you would think this one is truely amazing for a wholesaler... or... even some very well intentioned keepers.

As to the CITES... I'm sure Radiateds and Egyptians were mentioned. CITES makes it near impossible to distribute those animals that have been successfully bred in captivity. What this does is keeps the black market flowing.

Again... how can you dispute that the overproduction of a species in captivity is a questionable practice?

Originally Posted by Kirkie

I thought that the presentation on the farm and a UK rearing facilty were good on the whole with Chris voicing his own concerns over some aspects, such as hatchling care, that he witnessed in Slovenia as well as other chelonian concerns such as the proliferation of Horsfields tortoises into the trade, ranching methods and the fate of the parent animal.

*As a tortoise keeper I was not overly impressed with the UK facility, it reminded me of pictures I have seen of small mammal rearing facilites which I suppose have the same function, both are growing on operations after all. It is what it is; functional. The lack of provision of standing water also irked me. The justification was that tortoises in the wild dont drink standing water. I have many photographs in many books which refute this idea. Provision of water via a spray bar may replicate rainfall but we were told the substrate consists of wood shavings, so there would be no collection of standing water from which the tortoises could drink. The main water provision appears to be via dietry intake.

*I felt that to berate cites legislation as overly beaurocratic and unworkable but to have complete faith in the legality of the slovenian breeding stock because they have CITES approval a little hard to swallow as was the continuation of the anti import, uk breeders "cartel" theme which belongs in the same history book as "there are no tortoise farms".

This all appears rather negative but I do appreciate Chris Newman taking the time to present his views.

I did note down some facts and figures if anyone is interested?