Turtles in the winter

[idit85]

I have a couple of Greek tortoises (similar to the one pictured on the top left of this forum's page) and do not know what to do with them during the winter. I live In the Judean Mountains around Jerusalem where the wheather is rather mild in the winter. It only gets to freezing temperature (33 degrees) for maybe 2-3 days a season. The rest of the time the temp varies between 35 and 50 degrees with an average of about 40 degrees. In the summer I keep the turtles on my very big porch (about 40 sq meters). In the winter I was thinking to make available for them a large covered, water-proof plastic box with an opening to a direction where the rain cannot penetrate. This way, when it does not rain, they can get out onto the porch.
Questions:
1) will they be too cold there?
2) if I see that they hybernate (don't eat for a few days and stay inside their box) do I need to keep providing fresh food (which end up in the trash when not eaten)?

Last year I kept them indoors in the winter and it was a real mess!! they pooped/peed everywhere ... Not something i'm ready for again in my apartment... They of course did not hybernate, as it was warm indoors. When I put them out later, they did...Please recommand what I should do... and if their feeding needs are different in the winter. Right now they seem to have basically stopped eating, even though they are still getting around a bit...
Please advise,

Thanks.

[imported_Lowe]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. The first thing we need to do is properly identify your tortoises. There are many subspecies of Med Spur Thighed (testudo graeca) and depending upon which subspecies it is they may or may not hibernate.

Once we know what they are we can give you much more accurate advice. Do you have any pictures of them at all or could you take some for us? If you have some on your computer you can easily upload them by clicking the 'add image to post' button at the bottom of the text box you use to post messages here.

Where do you normally keep them during the warmer months - outside? Do you have an indoor enclosure for them? How old are they? Also what do you feed them? Sorry for all the questions, but like I say - the more we know, the better we can help you.

[idit85]

Thanks for you prompt reply. During the summer months I keep the turtles on my porch outside. There is both shade and sun there and many places where the turtles can "hide". The porch is ~40 square METERS. My porch is covered with ceramic and has no grass. But many plants surround it.
No, I don't have an indoor enclosure for them. Last winter they simply roamed around one of my bedroom. It was not pleasant. one of the turtles even got diarea! I don't wish to keep them indoors at all if possible. This is my main question to you. Can I keep them all winter out? It does NOT get very cold here, usually ~ 40 degrees farenheit, but sometimes the temp drops to 30 or so for a couple of days.
I am not sure the exact age of my turtles. One is very old. i would say between 30-40 years old, maybe more. The other is no more than 5-6 years old, I would say. How do i tell their age exaclty?
I feed them any vegetable and fruit that they will eat. Romaine lettuce is always available with either corn, avocado, green beens, cabbage, cukes, tomatos, peppers, broccoli, peas etc... also apples, plums, grape, melon. Any other suggestions? They only eat well during the hot summer months and very little during fall and spring. Nearly nothing in the cold winter (they can go for days without tasting a thing).

Thanks for your help and any suggestion(s)

Picture of one of the tutles enclosed (the young one).

[Eire_Ade]

Hello and welcome,

The first thing I must say is the answer to the diarhea problem is the diet, you must not feed med tortoises fruit or veg, rommaine lettuce is the best of a bad lot, you really need to be feeding them weeds only such as dandilion, plantain, sow thistle, there is an edible weed list on here or you can look up the T-Lady website for a downloadable and printable list of weeeds that are safe for tortoises. She also sells weed seed for you to grow if these weeds are not growing in Jerusalem.

You also need to suppliment the tortoises diet with limestone flour on the food every day and also twice a week put nutrabol on it as this is a multivitamin suppliment.

Your tortoises also need some rough terrane, ceramic tiles will not be adeqauet to keep nails filed down and beacks trimmed.

Have a look in the housing section here for some ideas you could use to transform your balcony into a tortoise garden. Which would interest and stimulate your tortoises.

So long as temperatures do not drop below 10 degrees celcius then your tortoise can stay outside, but as for hibernation if temperatures arent around 5 degrees celcius then the tortoise is not in hibernation, a tortoise also has to fast before hibernation and empty their gut of food as this will rot inside them if hibernated. Finally they do not hibernate for a couple of days, so I think you would need to consider using the fridge method to hibernate your tortoises in your part of the world.

Hope this helps.

Ade

[yam yam]

still learning myself but welcome to the forum

[imported_Lowe]

Hmm, I think I'll leave the identification to someone else because I can't make my mind up about that little one!

Still, as Ade says your diet is totally unsuitable for your tortoises which is exactly why they're having the 'runs' so to speak. LIke he says they need to be fed on basic weeds. I'm sure that there would be similar kinds in Jerusalem, but obviously since I'm UK based you'll have to help us out there! Fruit will upset the digestive system quite a lot, and the cabbage etc stops calcium being absorbed properly by the tortoise. Since they have a huge shell, they need lots and lots of calcium to be healthy - hence the need for suppliments in the UK since our plants don't have enough calcium in them.

Regarding hibernating, until we get definate IDs on all your tortoises I'll hold off on that. Do you have any photos of the others? You might have different sub species mixed together see.

[idit85]

Use the "fridge method"??? What is that? Keep my turtles in the fridge??????? AS for weeds, there aren't too many in here... the few that grow are not liked by my turtles. Can you recommand the best vegetables?
Can I keep them outside when temp drops to 5-0 degrees celcuis or is there a danger to them?
I'll try and get some limestone flour in a pet store here , but they may not like to eat their food with it. They are a bunch of fussy (but cute) turtles. I can try.

[piglet]

Andy come on give it ago what are you thinking This is how we learn

Darren

[imported_Lowe]

Piglet - well, I'm at work at the moment and I can't see the pictures so I'll have to take another look when I get home. From memory it looked like it had the shell colours of an Ibera but I thought it looked rather domed which would suggest Graeca Graeca... Also since Iberas are generally Turkish it's a bit out the way to be found in Jerusalem unlike a GG. Like I say though till I see the picture again I won't like to comment!

idit85 - no, your tortoises should not be kept outside if it's less than about 10c. At this point they need to be brought inside into an indoor enclosure with heat and UV lights. Have a look in the Housing section of the forum to get some ideas. Do not put them in a glass vivarium though, build a tortoise table type enclosure instead. If they are of the hibernating type (some med species aren't) then there's various methods to hibernate of which the 'fridge' method is but one.

The build up to hibernation is the same for all methods though. You gradually change the time that they have exposed to light, reducing it from 12-14 hours down to about 8-9, whilst also lowering the enclosures temps slightly. It's also essential that you reduce the amount that you feed them, to the point where the week before hibernation that you completely starve them. You need to keep maintaining the amount of baths to encourage them to empty their system so that there is no undigested food inside them since this can prove fatal otherwise. Once they're 'empty' and you're sure they're not ill or underweight then you can begin hibernation.

With the fridge method we box our tortoises up with a bit of newspaper as 'padding' then place them in a fridge which is set to maintain a constant temperature of 5c. They are then left for the period of hibernation appropriate for them. There's a fantastic guide on hibernation over at http://www.thetortoisehouse.com/ with all the methods of safe hibernation.

With regards to them eating - well, of course they're fussy, they've been spoiled now! You have to persevere with tortoises - it's a battle of wills. A tortoise can go without food (not water) for weeks without any problems whatsoever. Imagine you've been brought up eating best steak, and the finest fruits and vegetables. If someone then gave you a bowl of museli for your dinner would you eat it? Of course not, you'd wait for your next steak! So, the same is with our shelled friends. You have to take away the 'nice' foods and offer them what's good for them. If they don't eat it, tough! Eventually they'll get hungry enough to take it, and once they do, you must stick to it. You must not give in before they do!

[imported_Lowe]

Right - I can see the pic now I'm at home. I'm saying graeca graeca because of the carapace shape, and the lighter head colouring.