'Hibernation' at various temperatures

[Alan1]

Having been reading a few posts on a few threads it has got me wondering about the hibernation temperatures required - or not required.

As torts do not actually hibernate, what then is the best temperature to keep them at over the winter months?

I personally 'hibernate' mine at between 20c and 35c but other people prefer 5c which means they go about their business much more slowly than mine. There are other people who keep their torts between 10c and 15c successfully over winter which means they are operating more slowly than mine but much faster than those at 5c.

In the wild the temperatures fluctuate and the tortoises move according to what the temperature is, even coming up for food on warmer days before going back down again and digging deeper if the temps drop.

So, are they all 'hibernating' but just at different temperatures or are none of them 'hibernating', only slowing down (in two cases at least) or are only the ones kept at 5c 'hibernating'?

[Bindi]

Strictly speaking they're not hibernating at all, they are brumating


Taken from Wiki

Brumation
Dormancy in reptiles is an example of brumation, which is similar to hibernation.[2][3] It differs from hibernation in the metabolic processes involved.[4]
Reptiles generally begin brumation in late fall (more specific times depend on the species). They will often wake up to drink water and return to "sleep". They can go months without food. Reptiles may want to eat more than usual before the brumation time but will eat less or refuse food as the temperature drops. However, they do need to drink water. The brumation period is anywhere from one to eight months depending on the air temperature and the size, age, and health of the reptile. During the first year of life, many small reptiles do not fully brumate, but rather slow down and eat less often. Brumation should not be confused with hibernation; when mammals hibernate, they are actually asleep; when reptiles brumate, they are less active, and their metabolism slows down so they just do not need to eat as often. Reptiles can often go through the whole winter without eating. Brumation is triggered by cold weather, lack of heat, and the decrease in the amount of hours of daylight in the winter.





So basically you're sort of right Aloon, their level of activity and bodily functions all depends on temps...at least that's my understanding of it

I'm sure someone will come along and put me right in a bit (Ed?)


P.S I've been up ALL night coughing so I am a little bit away with the fairies today- soz

[Pussygalore]

you totally lost me there Alan, I assume that hibernation in all animals is basically the same, done because there is insufficient food/heat for the animal to operate and the animals metabolism slows right down during the 'sleep' enabling it to survive on its body fat and stored water. I also assume that there has to be a temp for this to take place ie to cold and the animal freezes to warm but not enough to be awake and active it uses up its stores to fast and would eventually die of starvation/dehydration. Did you see the frozen planet the other week showing a caterpillar that totally freezes in the snow/ice for several years before turning into a moth/butterfly I think it doesn't have long enough during the short summer to get fat enough to change so it takes that long, but it is frozen solid yet thaws and lives, amazing programme

[Ozric Jonathan]

I think the problem with temperatures of between 10 and 15 centigrade is that some metabolic processes are marching along quite significantly but there is no digestion or intake of food for nutrition. This may lead to the reserves of the tortoise becoming exhausted.

I know that some keepers in the states use a method of 'cooling' which is a period of lower temperatures that slow the tortoise down considerably but not as much as 'full hibernation'. I've not been able to find out anything more detailed than that about 'cooling' and that is probably because nobody wants to be feeling responsible.

Near 5C the tortoises' metabolism is obviously very much slowed down and ought not be using any fuel reserves. So it might not be such a problem if it hardly has any.

[burnt toast]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

you totally lost me there Alan, I assume that hibernation in all animals is basically the same, done because there is insufficient food/heat for the animal to operate and the animals metabolism slows right down during the 'sleep' enabling it to survive on its body fat and stored water. I also assume that there has to be a temp for this to take place ie to cold and the animal freezes to warm but not enough to be awake and active it uses up its stores to fast and would eventually die of starvation/dehydration. Did you see the frozen planet the other week showing a caterpillar that totally freezes in the snow/ice for several years before turning into a moth/butterfly I think it doesn't have long enough during the short summer to get fat enough to change so it takes that long, but it is frozen solid yet thaws and lives, amazing programme

I saw it Ann, (the caterpillar) & it did that lots of times because they dont transform for 14 years When they discribed it I thought they were going to say as it completely froze it had unfortunately died, but no - amazing really.

[Pussygalore]

I have no idea how the caterpiilar managed to live the following year as it must have been frozen solid, its heart etc must have stopped so god knows what kick starts it again, I've never heard of that before.

[jamestaylor18]

I found last year that at 5c mine were awake but not moving and very slow. At 3G they were fast asleep!

[Levi]

Originally Posted by jamestaylor18

I found last year that at 5c mine were awake but not moving and very slow. At 3G they were fast asleep!

That sounds typical for Horsfields, I've heard it gets pretty cold where they come from.

[jamestaylor18]

Ah well that's why then! Yea it is typical! Bought them a nice big table to run around in last weekend and all they have done is slept! Little buggers!

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

I have no idea how the caterpiilar managed to live the following year as it must have been frozen solid, its heart etc must have stopped so god knows what kick starts it again, I've never heard of that before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Turtle#p0060vdd
Not that I would recommend it at home, the sequence taken from "a life in cold blood" with hatchling painted Turtles in North America shows a frozen period in their early development of these very beautiful North American Turtles.