What type of Graeca are these ?.

Malwa85 · 10-04-2010, 08:22 PM

Hi guys, I got two torts yesterday and was wondering if someone can tell me which type of Graeca they are. I think one of them might be T.G. Soussensis ,

and the the second one Floweri

**egyptiandan64** · 10-04-2010, 08:54 PM

Nope not T.g.soussensis and no such thing as T.g.floweri

They are both Moroccans, T.g.marokkensis, first one is a female and second one is a male.

Danny

Marly · 10-04-2010, 08:57 PM

Maybe Floweri is the torts name

Malwa85 · 10-04-2010, 11:15 PM

I had thought about T.G. Marokkensis but I found and compared some pictures with T.G Soussenis and found that they looked very similar, and there is actually a T.Floweri, also called the Flowers Dwarf tortoise which is found around the Gaza Strip ,but I wasn't that sure about that one.The list below is from Wikipedia listing the different Testudo Graeca's,

T. graeca graeca, North Africa, southern Spain, Sardinia, the Baleares "Maghreb Tortoise" or "Spur-thighed Tortoise"
T. graeca ibera, Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, "Eurasian Tortoise"
T. graeca anamurensis, Turkey, "Anamur Tortoise"
T. graeca terrestris, Throughout Israel, "Levantine Tortoise"
T. graeca armenica, Armenia, "Armenian Tortoise"
T. graeca nikolskii, Caucasus, "Caucasian Tortoise"
T. graeca buxtoni, Caspian Sea area, "Caspian Tortoise"
T. graeca pallasi, Dagestan, "Dagestani Tortoise"
T. graeca marokkensis, Morocco
T. graeca lamberti, Morocco
T. graeca soussensis, Morocco
T. graeca nabeulensis, Tunisia, (Tunisian Spur-thighed Tortoise)
T. graeca floweri
T. graeca antakyensis
T. graeca flavominimaralis, Libya (Libyan Tortoise)

**egyptiandan64** · 10-04-2010, 11:36 PM

That list is a bit out of date

T.g.floweri isn't a valid subspecies name as itwasn't described properly.
T.g.flavominimaralis is now T.g.cyrenaica
T.g.lamberti is now subsumed under T.g.marokkensis
T.g.pallasi is now subsumed under T.g.armeniaca
T.g.nikolskii is now subsumed under T.g.ibera
T.g.antakyensis is now subsumed under T.g.terrestris
T.g.anamurensis is now subsumed under T.g.ibera

Danny

Malwa85 · 10-04-2010, 11:43 PM

Yes that's right, it's T. Floweri now.

.Thank's anyway.

**egyptiandan64** · 10-04-2010, 11:50 PM

No it's not T.floweri either

The name whether used as species or subspecies isn't valid.
The new DNA work on T.graeca has shown that they are all back being subspecies and not individual species. So that is now a bit out of date also.

Danny

Malwa85 · 11-04-2010, 12:05 AM

So Dan was there ever a tortoise going by the name T.G Floweri , it doesn't matter that much to me either way but now I'm just plain curious.

NATURALIS · 11-04-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

No it's not T.floweri either

The name whether used as species or subspecies isn't valid.
The new DNA work on T.graeca has shown that they are all back being subspecies and not individual species. So that is now a bit out of date also.

Danny

Hi,Dan, talking about spur thighed , do you know of any good books on tgi ,tgg. thanks Dan

**egyptiandan64** · 11-04-2010, 12:22 AM

Well kind of as it was described without a type specimen in 1933. It was forgotten about until an author (not sure who off the top of my head) resurrected it in either the 1970's or 80's. But yes it was supposedly described from animals from the Gaza Strip area. Tortoise from the area were DNAd also in the latest work and weren't different from T.g.terrestris.

I can't think of any really good book on T.graeca thats in english.

Danny

10-04-2010, 08:22 PM	#1
Malwa85 Member Incubating Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 187	What type of Graeca are these ?. Hi guys, I got two torts yesterday and was wondering if someone can tell me which type of Graeca they are. I think one of them might be T.G. Soussensis , and the the second one Floweri

10-04-2010, 08:54 PM	#2
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Nope not T.g.soussensis and no such thing as T.g.floweri They are both Moroccans, T.g.marokkensis, first one is a female and second one is a male. Danny __________________

10-04-2010, 08:57 PM	#3
Marly Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 1,202	Maybe Floweri is the torts name __________________

10-04-2010, 11:36 PM	#5
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	That list is a bit out of date T.g.floweri isn't a valid subspecies name as itwasn't described properly. T.g.flavominimaralis is now T.g.cyrenaica T.g.lamberti is now subsumed under T.g.marokkensis T.g.pallasi is now subsumed under T.g.armeniaca T.g.nikolskii is now subsumed under T.g.ibera T.g.antakyensis is now subsumed under T.g.terrestris T.g.anamurensis is now subsumed under T.g.ibera Danny __________________

10-04-2010, 11:50 PM	#7
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	No it's not T.floweri either The name whether used as species or subspecies isn't valid. The new DNA work on T.graeca has shown that they are all back being subspecies and not individual species. So that is now a bit out of date also. Danny __________________

10-04-2010, 11:15 PM	#4
Malwa85 Member Incubating Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 187	I had thought about T.G. Marokkensis but I found and compared some pictures with T.G Soussenis and found that they looked very similar, and there is actually a T.Floweri, also called the Flowers Dwarf tortoise which is found around the Gaza Strip ,but I wasn't that sure about that one.The list below is from Wikipedia listing the different Testudo Graeca's, T. graeca graeca, North Africa, southern Spain, Sardinia, the Baleares "Maghreb Tortoise" or "Spur-thighed Tortoise" T. graeca ibera, Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, "Eurasian Tortoise" T. graeca anamurensis, Turkey, "Anamur Tortoise" T. graeca terrestris, Throughout Israel, "Levantine Tortoise" T. graeca armenica, Armenia, "Armenian Tortoise" T. graeca nikolskii, Caucasus, "Caucasian Tortoise" T. graeca buxtoni, Caspian Sea area, "Caspian Tortoise" T. graeca pallasi, Dagestan, "Dagestani Tortoise" T. graeca marokkensis, Morocco T. graeca lamberti, Morocco T. graeca soussensis, Morocco T. graeca nabeulensis, Tunisia, (Tunisian Spur-thighed Tortoise) T. graeca floweri T. graeca antakyensis T. graeca flavominimaralis, Libya (Libyan Tortoise)

10-04-2010, 11:43 PM	#6
Malwa85 Member Incubating Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 187	Yes that's right, it's T. Floweri now. .Thank's anyway.

11-04-2010, 12:05 AM	#8
Malwa85 Member Incubating Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 187	So Dan was there ever a tortoise going by the name T.G Floweri , it doesn't matter that much to me either way but now I'm just plain curious.

11-04-2010, 12:22 AM	#10
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Well kind of as it was described without a type specimen in 1933. It was forgotten about until an author (not sure who off the top of my head) resurrected it in either the 1970's or 80's. But yes it was supposedly described from animals from the Gaza Strip area. Tortoise from the area were DNAd also in the latest work and weren't different from T.g.terrestris. I can't think of any really good book on T.graeca thats in english. Danny __________________

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