Is it wrong to keep TGG with TGI?

killerthetortoise · 20-09-2007, 02:07 PM

Hi,
I have a TGI already and am looking for another to keep it company. I have had an email from a guy saying he has some babies for sale but cant say they are pure TGI. He states the female is defo TGI but the male he's unsure about but it's of the TG sub type. I'm I right in thinking this isnt acceptable?

Phil.

20-09-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerthetortoise

Hi,
I have a TGI already and am looking for another to keep it company. I have had an email from a guy saying he has some babies for sale but cant say they are pure TGI. He states the female is defo TGI but the male he's unsure about but it's of the TG sub type. I'm I right in thinking this isnt acceptable?

Phil.

Hi Phil,
You need the same subspecies too.Remember,if you get the Hermanns they cant go with Killer.

Julie

killerthetortoise · 20-09-2007, 02:42 PM

Thx, yup I'm TOTALLY aware I cant put a herman/horsefield etc with my TGI. I was more concerned the guy is knowingly cross breeding OR AT LEAST NOT 100% sure they are the same. Thats all.

Cheers
Phil.

EJ · 20-09-2007, 03:07 PM

Many taxonomists don't even recognize the concept of subspecies.

If you are looking at keeping 2 tortoises together as pets and you are not interested in breeding them there is nothing inherently wrong with putting the two together.

You are right in saying that it is not acceptable in certain circles (and this is one of them) but it is acceptable in many others. Keeping 2 different tortoises together, especially similar tortoises, is more of a control issue than anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerthetortoise

Hi,
I have a TGI already and am looking for another to keep it company. I have had an email from a guy saying he has some babies for sale but cant say they are pure TGI. He states the female is defo TGI but the male he's unsure about but it's of the TG sub type. I'm I right in thinking this isnt acceptable?

Phil.

22-09-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ

Many taxonomists don't even recognize the concept of subspecies.

If you are looking at keeping 2 tortoises together as pets and you are not interested in breeding them there is nothing inherently wrong with putting the two together.

You are right in saying that it is not acceptable in certain circles (and this is one of them) but it is acceptable in many others. Keeping 2 different tortoises together, especially similar tortoises, is more of a control issue than anything else.

Hi Ed,
Surely the mixing of Pathogens betweeen the sub-species is too great a risk to take,let alone the risk of breeding occurring?

Julie

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerthetortoise

Hi,
I have a TGI already and am looking for another to keep it company. I have had an email from a guy saying he has some babies for sale but cant say they are pure TGI. He states the female is defo TGI but the male he's unsure about but it's of the TG sub type. I'm I right in thinking this isnt acceptable?

Phil.

EJ · 22-09-2007, 11:01 AM

Subspecies is a human concept... species are a human concept... created for nothing more than scientists to communicate. Two seperate species today can become the same species tomorrow. Do you put them together? Two of the same species today can become seperate species tomorrow. Do you seperate them?

Pathogens for the most part are not species specific. Do you really think a bug chooses it's host as such?

The risk of transmitting pathogens from individual to individual is no greater than species to species. Give it a little thought.

It's another unreasonable scare tactic used by some.

[quote="TransTort"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ

Many taxonomists don't even recognize the concept of subspecies.

Hi Ed,
Surely the mixing of Pathogens betweeen the sub-species is too great a risk to take,let alone the risk of breeding occurring?

Julie

helen1 · 22-09-2007, 11:31 AM

Give it a little thought...........

Could be dangerous.

However my simple mind.... sees the logic in Ed's post.

**Bindi** · 08-10-2007, 09:01 PM

sooo, is it dodgy to keep two different species of torts together or not? A breeder told me that it was ok as long as they came from the same country and that the problems are mainly if you put two species together that come from a different climate I know I may sound like a dunce but I'm new to this and I would really like to knowe the 'sensible' answer!

EJ · 08-10-2007, 09:12 PM

It sounds like you're looking for affirmation. It aint gonna happen on this list.

I'll say that it is another one of those topics that is split 50/50. Again... this is the reason for the heated opinions. It is really a people issue and not an animal issue.

If you are looking to breed them for future generations... don't do it... as long as you know for a fact the types you have.

If they are yard pets... I don't see any problem with the practice of keeping them together... but that's me... I'm a minority on this list... as far as admiting as much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bindi

sooo, is it dodgy to keep two different species of torts together or not? A breeder told me that it was ok as long as they came from the same country and that the problems are mainly if you put two species together that come from a different climate I know I may sound like a dunce but I'm new to this and I would really like to knowe the 'sensible' answer!

helen1 · 08-10-2007, 09:18 PM

As far as subspecies go, to give an example from a thread last week....

TG Perseses(sp) from 2002 to now was named as a seperate subspecies to TG Buxtoni, DNA cannot seperate the groups so they are both now classified as TGBuxtoni.

Which torts do you wish to mix?

20-09-2007, 02:07 PM	#1
killerthetortoise Member Incubating Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Chorley Lancashire Posts: 111	Is it wrong to keep TGG with TGI? Hi, I have a TGI already and am looking for another to keep it company. I have had an email from a guy saying he has some babies for sale but cant say they are pure TGI. He states the female is defo TGI but the male he's unsure about but it's of the TG sub type. I'm I right in thinking this isnt acceptable? Phil. __________________ Many Thanks Phil =================== 0.2.0 Testudo Horsefieldi (AKA Marge & Lisa) 0.0.1 Testudo Graeca Ibera (AKA Killer) Intruders Beware. Tortoises live here! ===================

20-09-2007, 02:42 PM	#3
killerthetortoise Member Incubating Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Chorley Lancashire Posts: 111	Thx, yup I'm TOTALLY aware I cant put a herman/horsefield etc with my TGI. I was more concerned the guy is knowingly cross breeding OR AT LEAST NOT 100% sure they are the same. Thats all. Cheers Phil. __________________ Many Thanks Phil =================== 0.2.0 Testudo Horsefieldi (AKA Marge & Lisa) 0.0.1 Testudo Graeca Ibera (AKA Killer) Intruders Beware. Tortoises live here! ===================

22-09-2007, 11:31 AM	#7
helen1 Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NORTH WEST Posts: 1,977	Give it a little thought........... Could be dangerous. However my simple mind.... sees the logic in Ed's post. __________________ I CARE FOR TORTS

08-10-2007, 09:18 PM	#10
helen1 Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NORTH WEST Posts: 1,977	As far as subspecies go, to give an example from a thread last week.... TG Perseses(sp) from 2002 to now was named as a seperate subspecies to TG Buxtoni, DNA cannot seperate the groups so they are both now classified as TGBuxtoni. Which torts do you wish to mix? __________________ I CARE FOR TORTS

08-10-2007, 09:01 PM	#8
Bindi Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,157	sooo, is it dodgy to keep two different species of torts together or not? A breeder told me that it was ok as long as they came from the same country and that the problems are mainly if you put two species together that come from a different climate I know I may sound like a dunce but I'm new to this and I would really like to knowe the 'sensible' answer!

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