Bit of a rant, no upset intended

[Daryn]

Hi everyone been a while since I posted.

I'm wanting to chat about breeding tortes.

I rehomed two Ibera, one female and one male, my intentions were to breed at least once and bring up a torte from birth. It would be an amazing thing to watch BUT.

After seeing so many tortoises in this country and other countries needing to be rehomed should we really be encouraging more breeding. I see on every tortoise forum tortes needing a good home, its either because someone can no longer look after them as they live such a long time or someone has bought one without prior knowledge of keeping one or they just got bored, yes lets be honest here not many would admit this but its true they get bored.

Alot of people see these tortes in a pet shop and they look so cute eating lettuce in their glass cage. I hate seeing this now.

Last year I visited a zoo in Tenerife, I was surprised how many hatchlings they had in a glass tank. They also had alot of deformed adult tortoises, not sure it was their fault or if they had rehomed them but I saw really bad ones, I have sent an email to them but never got a response.

Im not wanting to come across as a preacher here, Im not wantng to upset anyone either or rock the boat but I think it would be kinder to smash eggs rather than bring these animals into a world where they dont get the treatment and care they actually need.

I'm still tempted to breed one day and bring my own young one up but again is it worth it. Im 48 years old now, I already have two tortes that will probably out live me, where will they go when Im gone, who will look after them.

Its really hard, we really need to stop and think about this.

Why do we need more tortoises in this world when there is so many for free already.

Again please dont anyone take offence by this post, Im not pointing the finger or targeting anyone all Im trying to say is please dont bring unwanted pets into this world.
If they are for you yes, if they are for someone you know and trust to look after them forever then yes but please think about all the ones already here.

Rant over please still be my friend everyone.

[emma_mcraf]

I can certainly see your perspective on this Daryn and yes, there are so many torts needing to be rehomed.
I've made a decision that I won't breed my torts unless when the kids are all adults, they'd like a hatchling or two. I've already made plans with the kids that they'll take on the torts as I fully expect them all to outlive me. My daughter and youngest son in particular are really clued up on tortoise husbandry and my eldest son is training to be a veterinary nurse, so I'm pretty reassured my torts will live their lives out in the same family.

It is horrid seeing little hatchlings in pet shops, often eating the wrong food and it drives me insane when I see 'Horsefield' written above them. They can't even get the name right!

I ensure my torts don't breed as the females have NO contact at all with my males and that's the way it'll stay for a long time, maybe always.
Babies are so much more attractive to a new tort keeper though and I can see why there's a market for them.
Rehoming is very fulfilling and I'm glad that I've rehomed quite a lot of my torts, but I can see why the inexperienced keeper heads towards the pet shop, pulled in by the cute little babies. It's a shame as there are some great breeders about who actually care and will provide care sheets and advice. I reckon those torts are more likely to be kept in the right conditions than those sold in shops.

I'll still be your friend.

[alley cat]

I breed from my torts and get several hatchlings which I sell via the internet, by word of mouth or to friends and family.
I think that you are suggesting that I (as a breeder) should stop adding to the unwanted torts that are already out there but my thinking is that those who buy from pet shops are often impulse buyers but those who have thought it through more will go online, research the species they want, find a breeder and travel quite long distances to collect their new pet.
I try very hard to give buyers as much detailed information as possible whilst they are here and always tell them to ring me if they need any more help at a later date.
There are animals of all shapes and sizes that are for various reasons looking for new homes, there always will be, as breeders we have a responsibility to ensure that people who want to purchase a pet get the choice to buy from someone who has knowledge of the species, or I could just stop breeding, let all these people go to a pet shop and buy a tort, vivarium and tort pellets!

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi Daryn

Some keepers who become very good ones are looking to start out with a small tortoise. I don't think it would be a good thing if people were not able to buy really small ones. Some keepers just wouldn't ever start.

. I don't know Alley Cat personally but my guess is that she is well out of pocket in her tortoise keeping and the breeding is done for the fun of it and love of the animals. After all the microchipping, endless filling out of forms and time spent, getting a few quid back seems reasonable.

Personally I couldn't be bothered with it. I've got a couple of eggs in the incubator for the first time after about a decade of keeping. If I get a couple of little ones over the next few years I think that would be it for me.

[Stellanne]

I think sometimes, when you have kept torts for years, the next challenge is to incubate and rear hatchlings. This was certainly the case for myself and after many years of trying successfully incubated some beautiful hatchlings. All went to very good homes, some people made enquiries and decided a tort wasn't for them after a detailed talk about what is needed, now and in the long term. It is strange how many people do not know how big a tortoise will grow and how few think of the long term commitment to their grandchildren.
Now I have had the challenge of incubating eggs and have been successful I don't have any real desire to do it again. However, having seen Chloe lay some eggs I had to pick them up, only two look fertile. I shall be closing my eyes next time I see a gravid tort until she has secretly laid her eggs. X x x hugs x x

[wigwamman]

you make some fair and interesting points in your post,i have found myself in the same position recently and things can get very negative.if i may offer a piece of advice to you i would say breed your torts once just for the sheer experience of it.you can then cross it off your bucket list.
kind regards and enjoy the hobby!
dave

[tortydat]

I breed tortoises and have done for a long time and sell some of my hatchlings to help pay towards my electricity bill etc thus enabling me to pursue my hobby. Having been the re-homing officer for a large tortoise group for ten years I would say that people who want to start with a hatchling tortoise do not want to re-home a tortoise. If I persuaded one person in a hundred who came to me enquiring about hatchlings to re-home a tortoise I would consider I had done well. I agree that it is a very rosie picture assuming that all people looking to buy a hatchling could be persuaded to re-home a tortoise whereas in reality this just ain't the case.

Mary

[Stellanne]

All my tortoises were rehomed from various parts of the country......I have been as far as Kent collecting some 'less than perfect' specimens. I have retrieved tortoises from some dreadful conditions, most I bought, a few were given to me. But all have a wonderful, forever home now. Now I have three homegrown hatchlings to care for.......let's hope I can do it right x x x xhugs x x x

[Daryn]

Thanks everyone for your comments it gives me food for thought. As has already been said by Stellanne the next way to go would be to have your very own hatchlings, I can imagine that would be an amazing experience and certainly something I have always wanted to do and really still tempted.

Its hard and again if I have come across as pointing the finger at anyone it wasnt meant to be like that, Im still really wanting to do this myself just for me, maybe one or two but I just see all these others out there that are unwanted.

Good points guys all of them.

Alley Cat you are right there too, those that look for special breeders have more than likely done their homework and know what is expected upfront, also getting proper help over the phone/internet etc from the breeder is a massive bonus.

Im still thinking about it and probably will do over a few years as Im not ready to take anymore as yet, Im never in a hurry to do anything TBH lol, I ask and ask and want to know everything before I do anything. Im tipping towards breeding a couple for me after reading these posts but when or if I do I dont know.

Cheers folks and again thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Pussygalore]

I used to breed Ibera and had great success with the adult pair I had, I don't mind saying I bred them as a small income both to help with the costs of keeping them and to give myself a bit of money as I only have a small cleaning job. However anyone interested was sent a very thorough caresheet before going any further and those that got back me always ended up with a hatchling, I'm an exception in that my buyers came to my house to see my set ups and go over anything that I'd missed and nearly all have kept in touch over the years. I do think that many of the torts up for rehoming are from owners that bought too many torts without thinking about the possibilty of them turning out to be the wrong sex ie needing separate housing, I also think that its impossible to know whats going to happen in the future and that no one can say for certain they are offering a forever home. With the exception of a few the majority of torts needing a new home have a genuine reason for doing so and I'd rather see good breeders selling than people buying from shops and unless you are an experienced keeper there's always a risk in rehoming an older animal, it takes a few years before you know enough to take on something which may have problems or needs hibernating etc. I don't beleive a first time owner should go down the rehoming route and many owners wouldn't rehome to one anyway. If you do decide to have a go at breeding then you must also realize that you can't 100% garuntee the sex of a hatchling and that you to must have enough space and money to keep torts apart if needed and that you to may get married, move house, have a family or many other things that might make you have to give up keeping torts. Just out of interest are you based in the UK?