aldabra- advice on avoiding scams - Page 3

fats · 05-03-2010, 01:09 AM

I'm dragging Dae to Hamm with me on the 13th, there might well be some there, there was last year

EJ · 05-03-2010, 01:40 AM

I can pretty much guarentee there WILL be Aldabras in Hamm.

It would be a great experience on top of the main quest.

I wish I could make it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fats

I'm dragging Dae to Hamm with me on the 13th, there might well be some there, there was last year

Geomyda · 05-03-2010, 07:01 AM

Just to be clear on their CITES status
:http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html
There are of course, Aldabran Tortoises advertised for sale already here in the UK. Try Slowcoach Tortoise site small ad's.
I suspect that after taking shipping costs and necessary protocols into consideration, these may well prove a more economic alternative. Plus, you can inspect prior to exchanging money, and see the sort of facility these Giant Tortoises require for acceptable husbandry here in the UK.

**Alan1** · 05-03-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Just to be clear on their CITES status
:http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html
There are of course, Aldabran Tortoises advertised for sale already here in the UK. Try Slowcoach Tortoise site small ad's.
I suspect that after taking shipping costs and necessary protocols into consideration, these may well prove a more economic alternative. Plus, you can inspect prior to exchanging money, and see the sort of facility these Giant Tortoises require for acceptable husbandry here in the UK.

Sounds a far better option to me

fats · 05-03-2010, 10:21 AM

DEFRA have their own rules for importing into the UK but are looking to Brussels to clarify the situation as the rules predominantly are in place for Dogs and Cats and don't cover reptiles. As far as I understand it if you are bringing a PET reptile from another EU country into the UK then you don't need to worry about anything provided you are with the animal (so good news for those of us going to Hamm).

As far as CITES go they don't really mind as they are primarily concerned with wild caught specimens coming into the EU and the exporter would have to do the paperwork. Captive bred appendix II (pretty sure Aldabs are appendix II) animals that are going to be pets wouldn't need any CITES paperwork provided they are being brought in from another EU country (as the CITES paperwork should have been done when they were brought into the EU). If you are bringing CITES Appendix II animals in from a non-EU country as a pet then you just need an import permit.

Clear as mud?

dae · 05-03-2010, 02:00 PM

Hi All,

Ha yes Fats is taking me to Hamm (ps fats I just bought another ticket I'm bring my sister with me- I told you I have lots of sisters!!!).

I think Hamm will be a good chance to see some aldabs and get a feel for what's available. I have looked in the UK and have found a number of them but I just havn't been so impressed and they are asking the same price as it would cost me to import some from Seychelles.

I've looked into the import permit and I think it looks straight forward enough actually, this is from the Defra website, so looks like it would cost me £59 flat rate at this end ragardless howmany I import.

FEES

1. Import and export permits (issued under Articles 4 and 5 of
Regulation EC338/97)
£59

A fee of £59 is required for each application to import or export a single specimen or any number of specimens as long as they:

(a) are of the same species (in the case of animals other than corals) or genus (in the case of plants and corals), and
(b) have the same source code and purpose code, and
(c) are to be transported between the same importer and exporter.

I'll still see what Hamm brings tho, as Ed said, it will be a fantastic experience either way- can't wait!!!

EJ · 05-03-2010, 08:53 PM

That's the way I understood it but wasn't sure.

If you go to the Cites web page you will see that Aldabras are not even listed but I seem to remember that there is a general tortoise rule for those not listed and I think it is App II.

www.cites.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by fats

DEFRA have their own rules for importing into the UK but are looking to Brussels to clarify the situation as the rules predominantly are in place for Dogs and Cats and don't cover reptiles. As far as I understand it if you are bringing a PET reptile from another EU country into the UK then you don't need to worry about anything provided you are with the animal (so good news for those of us going to Hamm).

As far as CITES go they don't really mind as they are primarily concerned with wild caught specimens coming into the EU and the exporter would have to do the paperwork. Captive bred appendix II (pretty sure Aldabs are appendix II) animals that are going to be pets wouldn't need any CITES paperwork provided they are being brought in from another EU country (as the CITES paperwork should have been done when they were brought into the EU). If you are bringing CITES Appendix II animals in from a non-EU country as a pet then you just need an import permit.

Clear as mud?

**16 shells** · 05-03-2010, 09:11 PM

Defra have to go to Brussel's, to sew the holes they have in there own Cites paperwork. They do this alot in agriculture.

fats · 05-03-2010, 09:15 PM

Aldabras are a pain in the bum as their latin name seems to change depending on who you talk to but I searched for aldabra using "common name" on cites and it came up with them on appendix II.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ

That's the way I understood it but wasn't sure.

If you go to the Cites web page you will see that Aldabras are not even listed but I seem to remember that there is a general tortoise rule for those not listed and I think it is App II.

www.cites.org

swad1000 · 05-03-2010, 09:21 PM

http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml

You need to scroll down a way.

Alltestudindae species are Cites two, unless listed under Cites one.

05-03-2010, 07:01 AM	#23
Geomyda Senior Member Adult Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Surrey Posts: 2,094	Aldabran Tortoise Just to be clear on their CITES status :http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html There are of course, Aldabran Tortoises advertised for sale already here in the UK. Try Slowcoach Tortoise site small ad's. I suspect that after taking shipping costs and necessary protocols into consideration, these may well prove a more economic alternative. Plus, you can inspect prior to exchanging money, and see the sort of facility these Giant Tortoises require for acceptable husbandry here in the UK. Last edited by Geomyda; 05-03-2010 at 07:10 AM.

05-03-2010, 02:00 PM	#26
dae Member Hatchling Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 548	Hi All, Ha yes Fats is taking me to Hamm (ps fats I just bought another ticket I'm bring my sister with me- I told you I have lots of sisters!!!). I think Hamm will be a good chance to see some aldabs and get a feel for what's available. I have looked in the UK and have found a number of them but I just havn't been so impressed and they are asking the same price as it would cost me to import some from Seychelles. I've looked into the import permit and I think it looks straight forward enough actually, this is from the Defra website, so looks like it would cost me £59 flat rate at this end ragardless howmany I import. FEES 1. Import and export permits (issued under Articles 4 and 5 of Regulation EC338/97) £59 A fee of £59 is required for each application to import or export a single specimen or any number of specimens as long as they: (a) are of the same species (in the case of animals other than corals) or genus (in the case of plants and corals), and (b) have the same source code and purpose code, and (c) are to be transported between the same importer and exporter. I'll still see what Hamm brings tho, as Ed said, it will be a fantastic experience either way- can't wait!!! __________________ Dae A herd of Horsefields Radiata- Humperdink & friends A Bengal Kitten called Anakin

05-03-2010, 09:11 PM	#28
16 shells Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hull Posts: 7,286	Defra have to go to Brussel's, to sew the holes they have in there own Cites paperwork. They do this alot in agriculture. __________________ Paul.

05-03-2010, 01:09 AM	#21
fats Member Incubating Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: UK Posts: 134	I'm dragging Dae to Hamm with me on the 13th, there might well be some there, there was last year

05-03-2010, 10:21 AM	#25
fats Member Incubating Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: UK Posts: 134	DEFRA have their own rules for importing into the UK but are looking to Brussels to clarify the situation as the rules predominantly are in place for Dogs and Cats and don't cover reptiles. As far as I understand it if you are bringing a PET reptile from another EU country into the UK then you don't need to worry about anything provided you are with the animal (so good news for those of us going to Hamm). As far as CITES go they don't really mind as they are primarily concerned with wild caught specimens coming into the EU and the exporter would have to do the paperwork. Captive bred appendix II (pretty sure Aldabs are appendix II) animals that are going to be pets wouldn't need any CITES paperwork provided they are being brought in from another EU country (as the CITES paperwork should have been done when they were brought into the EU). If you are bringing CITES Appendix II animals in from a non-EU country as a pet then you just need an import permit. Clear as mud?

05-03-2010, 09:21 PM	#30
swad1000 Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,702	http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml You need to scroll down a way. Alltestudindae species are Cites two, unless listed under Cites one.

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