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Old 09-11-2015, 02:17 PM   #21
Alan1
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That is a difficult one isn't it because there are so many factors. We over feed our tortoises by 300% it is estimated, but not in a bad way, not sure how you would measure it all. One of my tortoises who came to me was routinely given sausages and toast - she lived to 80 odd, I had corrected her diet and I hibernated her as she always had been and she died coming out of hibernation - was that me ? the conditions? her previous husbandry? old age? I still wonder if I had done something different she would have lived but I will never know and that's what hurts.
There are lots of stories of torts living to 70 and 80 years old and it's unlikely that they have been hibernated in fridges or fed a 'correct' diet. I read somewhere that in the wild 30 is the average age of a Hermann but then thousands won't make it through the first year so that will knock the average down hugely. There's plenty we don't know like does not hibernating shorten their lives. If they are active for 12 months a year instead of 9 are their lives being shortened or are they actually gaining an extra 3 months of life per year, who's to say?
Does fridge hibernation have an adverse effect, how would we know other than wait 30 years and see what happens.
Simply by taking them from where they would naturally be found means almost everything we do for them or give them is unnatural to them. The climate is different, soil is different, weeds are different, UVB levels are different and hibernation is different even if allowed to hibernate naturally. So who knows what's best, nobody.. yet.
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:57 PM   #22
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There are lots of stories of torts living to 70 and 80 years old ...... If they are active for 12 months a year instead of 9 are their lives being shortened or are they actually gaining an extra 3 months of life per year, who's to say?
.......
very good point !
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:18 PM   #23
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I think it's relevant if any benefit can be demonstrated from hibernation.

Since there is always some risk attached to hibernation, the reason for doing it is either that there is a benefit or because the keeper isn't in a position to provide really good care indoors for months on end.

The argument that not hibernating a tortoise puts it at some kind of risk just is not convincing me at all at the moment.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:33 PM   #24
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Since I started to over winter my very elderly Herman, thankfully it has been easy, he is quite perky all winter, eats well etc, and has been better over the summer too. He really was struggling to come out of hibernation, and wasn't having a good summer either, so it was a no brainer to over winter him, what ever time he has left now is a bonus. He is so old, bless him, when he finally pops his clogs, I know I will have given him the very best, and I feel now that over wintering for him is the best thing to do.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:37 PM   #25
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Personally, I do think hatchlings and young torts are at more risk of dehydrating and poor shell growth, if they are overwintered, simply because they are spending more months basking and potentially dehydrating, where as in the wild they would have some time off from basking and growing so less chance of dehydrating. That's just me pondering.
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:36 PM   #26
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I have checked mine today and the paper and some in straw, soil - all of it is damp which is never a problem as it does keep them hydrated.
And a massive point to make as I am quite shocked.........I nearly didn't go out and do the evening rounds tonight as it was raining & blowing a gale, dark and horrid, and quite a few are uncover, but decided after taking my coat off to put it back on. I found Lettie on her back by the apple tree !!!! in all the years I have had her I have never seen her topple over or if she has, perhaps unseen, she has gone back upright. she rarely walks over to the apple tree also. I was so shocked I thought it was mistaken for one of my stone ornaments gone over in the wind!!!
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:39 PM   #27
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Awwww poor little Lettie, hope she is ok now.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:00 PM   #28
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Jonathan - just out of interest you said you hibernate some of your tortoises - do you always hibernate the same ones every year and keep the same ones up or do you have some sort of rota?
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:45 PM   #29
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Jonathan - just out of interest you said you hibernate some of your tortoises - do you always hibernate the same ones every year and keep the same ones up or do you have some sort of rota?
Vikki what I do is maybe a bit bonkers. I consider each tortoise individually and take the weight into account - I'm a lot more likely to hibernate a specific tortoise if it's gained a lot in the summer months.

I'm also likely to hibernate males partly because they are more active than the females (and I suspect they feel cooped up indoors) and partly because they place more demands on our indoor space. The males that I have must have their own individual space, but the girls are happy enough together.

Also I probably wouldn't hibernate either of the oldest two, and that is simply because I've had them the longest. But that is the 'risk' mentality in action and makes no objective sense at all!
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:36 PM   #30
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That makes sense - do you have problems if you have hibernated one year and then decide not to the next - have they then got an internal push to hibernate having done so previously and how easy is it to overcome with lighting/heating etc? Sorry for all the questions but love this sort of first hand info
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