overwintering Turkish Ibera

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Very true but what about the people who have no access to outside space there is no reason why they can't keep tortoises and other pets that would benefit from going out. with all the lighting and supplements that are around now I don't see it as a problem

They should find more suitable pets for their circumstances.
Each to their own opinions.

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by sandy

They should find more suitable pets for their circumstances.
Each to their own opinions.

You really are a bundle of fun aren't you

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Gordon

You really are a bundle of fun aren't you

Of course:0)

[Pussygalore]

I used to send any prospect owner for one of my hatchlings a care sheet which always said about the need for an outdoor run in the summer even if the tort was carried in and out and wouldn't have sold one to someone who said they hadn't that space. To me keeping anything inside all the time exspecially in the summer is the same as not allowing a child outside in the fresh air and sun, yes i have two birds that are in a large cage in the house but even they have the window open on good days and did used to be put outside in their cage where we used to live but sadly can't be anymore as we now live in a flat however they do come out for a fly around every evening. I don't like to see animals such as rabbits kept inside as I've seen how they love the space of a garden outside and how they love to run and play if given that space and also love to sunbathe plus choose their own growing food, we once took on a rabbit that has never been outside and was nearly crippled from being in a restricted space, he loved being outside and did move more freely but was never as healthy as he should have been however I'd like to think he spent his last few years being far happier than he had been. My animals including the torts had the whole side garden to themselves and were only shut in at night in their houses which they went into by themselves, you wouldn't buy a horse if you didn't have a field so why buy another animal that does live naturally outside and is seen to obviously enjoy being outside in the summer. Surely when we think about a new pet shouldn't we first think can I look after it in the way that's been proven over the years to be best for the animal/bird not can I adapt it to fit in with my life, yes I have a small dog and live in a flat however milo goes with hubby to fetch the papers every morning which is about a round mile trip he also gets taken into the gardens several times a day (he can go in them just not straight from the flat by himself) goes with me to the shops and I don't work so is rarely if ever left by himself, we thought long and hard before getting him another reason for choosing a small dog that can go everywhere with us including on the bikes.

[Gordon]

Ok I get your point when I get home I will let the kids hamsters out in the garden the goldfish can go in the river the dogs I will go and dump in the fields up the road might take the rabbit with them and in the summer I will put all my tunisians outside I'm sure they will be fine if I set them up on a baytril drip

[Pussygalore]

well if your hamsters have such a tiny home, the fish such a small tank and the dogs left by themselves all day and don't have a garden then maybe they would be better in the field up the road. If you will give stupid replies then expect one back. A hamster needs a bigger cage than the tiny things I've seen in some shops do you know they will travel some distance in the night collecting food, and yes fish need enough space again not some of the silly tanks that you can buy, don't they to have longer memory's than it used to be thought and are far more intelligent than most owners think. As for your torts don't they get outside at all even on a sunny day, do you have a so called house rabbit? have you never seen wild rabbits enjoying their freedom and your dogs, don't they get outside or taken for enough walks and let off the lead according to their size. You don't have to be einstein to know what your animals need and if you can't provide it then should you really have them just because you can. I'm sure your'e not like the above so why say such stupid things! I'm also sure you don't put your children, if any, in small cages or cupboards and do take them outside in the sun to play or are they some of the children that get put in front of a tv or computer and don't get taken out at weekends because the parent doesn't have the time or can't be bothered.

[becciwales]

The argument is totally invalid now we know the birds are being kept in a cage.
Do you see that in the wild? The freedom of birds to fly south, flying around a flat is not the same. Having a window open is not the same as outdoor freedom.

Gordon, your children do need to see the light of day, but fair play, when I met your youngest, she didn't seem too neglected or unhappy drinking her drink in Costa!

[alley cat]

Originally Posted by becciwales

The argument is totally invalid now we know the birds are being kept in a cage.
Do you see that in the wild? The freedom of birds to fly south, flying around a flat is not the same. Having a window open is not the same as outdoor freedom. :

This is all getting a bit silly now, of course the birds need to be contained in some way but its about providing the best environment thats possible but within the constraints that us humans can provide if we insist on keeping animals as pets.
Back to indoor tortoises...I think that we should all strive to provide our torts with as much time in the natural sunlight as possible as the benefits of this both physically and mentally for the torts is immense. Obviously we are keeping an animal that needs far more sun than our weather here gives us so the use of lamps is also a benefit, I think most would agree that a combination of the two seems to work well. My personal opinion is I would not keep any tortoise exclusively indoors as I have seen how much they thrive when outside on a sunny day.

[becciwales]

Originally Posted by alley cat

This is all getting a bit silly now, of course the birds need to be contained in some way but its about providing the best environment thats possible but within the constraints that us humans can provide if we insist on keeping animals as pets.
Back to indoor tortoises...I think that we should all strive to provide our torts with as much time in the natural sunlight as possible as the benefits of this both physically and mentally for the torts is immense. Obviously we are keeping an animal that needs far more sun than our weather here gives us so the use of lamps is also a benefit, I think most would agree that a combination of the two seems to work well. My personal opinion is I would not keep any tortoise exclusively indoors as I have seen how much they thrive when outside on a sunny day.

I fully agree. But the OP had the tortoise in September. So from then until now it's not really been warm enough for it to be outside.
My reply was in response to an equally ridiculous argument.
Instead of providing advice and support, the OP was shot down from the start. My tortoise have been indoors since the end of September. I'm pretty sure that in the UK, most people's have!

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

well if your hamsters have such a tiny home, the fish such a small tank and the dogs left by themselves all day and don't have a garden then maybe they would be better in the field up the road. If you will give stupid replies then expect one back. A hamster needs a bigger cage than the tiny things I've seen in some shops do you know they will travel some distance in the night collecting food, and yes fish need enough space again not some of the silly tanks that you can buy, don't they to have longer memory's than it used to be thought and are far more intelligent than most owners think. As for your torts don't they get outside at all even on a sunny day, do you have a so called house rabbit? have you never seen wild rabbits enjoying their freedom and your dogs, don't they get outside or taken for enough walks and let off the lead according to their size. You don't have to be einstein to know what your animals need and if you can't provide it then should you really have them just because you can. I'm sure your'e not like the above so why say such stupid things! I'm also sure you don't put your children, if any, in small cages or cupboards and do take them outside in the sun to play or are they some of the children that get put in front of a tv or computer and don't get taken out at weekends because the parent doesn't have the time or can't be bothered.

Well where do I begin as none of you know where and how I live I will fill you in a bit , my house is detached of a reasonable size my garden is give or take a few feet is 6 acres.
My children saved all their pocket money up to buy the biggest cages they could get as like you say they need room.As for my tortoises I would love to take them out in the sun but as soon as I do they get rns and one even ended up with a very bad repertory infection so the way I look at it its in there best interest to stay in where they seem a lot happier so that's why they don't go out.As for indoor tortoises and other exotic animals that don't see the light of day in a lot of cases it is not possible to get them outside so they are kept indoors like your birds and given the best care possible. So are you saying for those people who have no garden or even for the people who live in flats can't keep a pet of any sort or they can as long as they carry little timmy the budgie or speedy the tortoise outside everyday I don't think so.
I see no problem why a tortoise can't stay indoors whatsoever now with the correct heating lighting and minerals.
If we couldn't keep exotic pets indoors there wouldn't be much point in zoo's wildlife parks etc as im sure they don't take a lot of their animals outside but maybe that's a different thing in your eyes