Care For The Wild

[EJ]

Don't worry about me... I'm gonna let Paul take the reigns and ride...

Originally Posted by linda

boys play nicely

keep it to facts not personal insults

[Ozric Jonathan]

Someone please explain to me why someone on this forum is saying that someone else
"effing sucks".

Surely it isn't good for us to resort to such abusive communication!

[linda]

Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan

Someone please explain to me why someone on this forum is saying that someone else
"effing sucks".

Surely it isn't good for us to resort to such abusive communication!

please do not worry
the people who decided to take this arguement further
and who stated
"effing sucks".

have been spoken to by mods and admin
they are on a warning


Surely it isn't good for us to resort to such abusive communication![/quote]
no it isnt a good form of communication

and it will be stopped

[EJ]

I think I feel the need to explain this...

It involves someone who is so arrogant that they think they need to correct a nations culture which has been in practice for thousands of years and that they know better.

Then they are proud that they, or their cause, actually had some influence on forcing these people to their knees.

That is very wrong to me but I seem to see a very distinct pattern among some folks which... I'll let it go at that.

Don't lump me with American politics either.

It's similar to people getting jumped on... or banned... only because they are not doing it the way it is 'supposed' to be done.

In the case that I made my comment... 'I believe it's wrong so you can't do it'... and we're talking about farmed animals... not slaves... not animals taken out of the wild...

Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan

Someone please explain to me why someone on this forum is saying that someone else
"effing sucks".

Surely it isn't good for us to resort to such abusive communication!

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

I think I feel the need to explain this...

It involves someone who is so arrogant that they think they need to correct a nations culture which has been in practice for thousands of years and that they know better.

Then they are proud that they, or their cause, actually had some influence on forcing these people to their knees.

That is very wrong to me but I seem to see a very distinct pattern among some folks which... I'll let it go at that.

Don't lump me with American politics either.

It's similar to people getting jumped on... or banned... only because they are not doing it the way it is 'supposed' to be done.

In the case that I made my comment... 'I believe it's wrong so you can't do it'... and we're talking about farmed animals... not slaves... not animals taken out of the wild...

Ed,
I have said on a number of occasions that you are entitled to your own opinion, however, your premise in this last statement is patently wrong:

"Then they are proud that they, or their cause, actually had some influence on forcing these people to their knees".

The article in the Guardian Newspaper states quite clearly that Chinese legislators are enacting Animal welfare laws in their country. The fact that they are also referring to input from outside organisations is clearly their choice.
Back in the dim and distant past, it was legal here in the UK to arrange, Cock Fights, Dog Fights, Badger and even Bear Baiting. Due to political and cultural changes such practices were outlawed. Things do change, and any of us have the right to highlight and expose these problems as and when they manifest in any Culture, Country, or situation.
The fact I and others are deeply concerned about the unsustainable consumption of live, often ilegally collected Chelonia from all over the world to feed a Chinese habit is in my opinion a legitimate area of criticism, and if UK public companies are engaged in this trade then they too are culpable. Their shareholders, whom I suspect are largely Western capitalists should be made aware of these practices and at least kept informed about decisions made by the management of their investments.

[EJ]

No... this is a case of one group trying to impose their values on another. Quite simple... and... quite wrong.

The number one reason for species disapearing... habitat distruction.

On the turtles... most are farmed... at least in the case of the TESCO deal. I will give you that some WC do find their way to market.

I guess I'm not wrong considering that you restated what I said.

I guess it is politics, Paul... which I really don't follow.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Ed,
I have said on a number of occasions that you are entitled to your own opinion, however, your premise in this last statement is patently wrong:

"Then they are proud that they, or their cause, actually had some influence on forcing these people to their knees".

The article in the Guardian Newspaper states quite clearly that Chinese legislators are enacting Animal welfare laws in their country. The fact that they are also referring to input from outside organisations is clearly their choice.
Back in the dim and distant past, it was legal here in the UK to arrange, Cock Fights, Dog Fights, Badger and even Bear Baiting. Due to political and cultural changes such practices were outlawed. Things do change, and any of us have the right to highlight and expose these problems as and when they manifest in any Culture, Country, or situation.
The fact I and others are deeply concerned about the unsustainable consumption of live, often ilegally collected Chelonia from all over the world to feed a Chinese habit is in my opinion a legitimate area of criticism, and if UK public companies are engaged in this trade then they too are culpable. Their shareholders, whom I suspect are largely Western capitalists should be made aware of these practices and at least kept informed about decisions made by the management of their investments.

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

No... this is a case of one group trying to impose their values on another. Quite simple... and... quite wrong.

The number one reason for species disapearing... habitat distruction.

On the turtles... most are farmed... at least in the case of the TESCO deal. I will give you that some WC do find their way to market.

I guess I'm not wrong considering that you restated what I said.

I guess it is politics, Paul... which I really don't follow.

Perhaps Ed,
You should look into the reasons your own Government has moved last year to quickly pass Federal legislation to protect all four Species of Native North American Soft Shell Turtle?

[EJ]

Very good point... unwarranted political pressure from the bunny hugger groups. The 'study' that was use to pass that legislation was very unscientific and went totally unchallenged until it was too late.

That is my point... the squeakly wheel gets the grease and those in the herp community are starting to realize this almost too late. They are finding that they were happy going about their business... not causing any waves... until... some outside group dictates how they should conduct their hobby.

Much of this legislation is enacted quickly and quietly to avoid any opposition.

I suspect that the bunny hugger groups are going to find it a bit more difficult to impose their values on the masses because people are starting to take notice that all these 'rights' that they've had in the past can be taken away by a very small vocal group.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Perhaps Ed,
You should look into the reasons your own Government has moved last year to quickly pass Federal legislation to protect all four Species of Native North American Soft Shell Turtle?

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Very good point... unwarranted political pressure from the bunny hugger groups. The 'study' that was use to pass that legislation was very unscientific and went totally unchallenged until it was too late.

That is my point... the squeakly wheel gets the grease and those in the herp community are starting to realize this almost too late. They are finding that they were happy going about their business... not causing any waves... until... some outside group dictates how they should conduct their hobby.

Much of this legislation is enacted quickly and quietly to avoid any opposition.

I suspect that the bunny hugger groups are going to find it a bit more difficult to impose their values on the masses because people are starting to take notice that all these 'rights' that they've had in the past can be taken away by a very small vocal group.

Can I quote you when I next speak to Anders Rhodin, and other senior members of the IUCN, TFWTSG?

[EJ]

Not unless you want to stir **** with me and them. You seem to be quite better than me on that account on a larger level.

I've been able to maintain my on the fence position with most groups... you can try to change that if you like.

I'm expressing my opinion based on input from the different groups... and in the case of the softshell... personal observation.

I'm curious when the last time you spoke to Anders?

Again... I don't get into the politics.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Can I quote you when I next speak to Anders Rhodin, and other senior members of the IUCN, TFWTSG?