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Old 16-11-2008, 02:47 PM   #21
Kirkie
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What about Nick Baker? He's a champion for the less than cuddly animals of the world.

Geomyda - going off topic onto an issue of smaller scale can you have a look at the thread in "General" - Pets at home selling Tortoises, I need some advice. Cheers.

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Old 16-11-2008, 06:45 PM   #22
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You can contact Nigel Marven through his website. He actually reads his own email. Right now I believe he is in Indonesia or some such place... filming... of course.

I'd actually be willing to bet he might offer some help if approaced in the manner that the participants of this thread have displayed. While I don't agree with your cause... I admire the civility with which it is being undertaken.

Yup... they are taking their toll. I can't speak for Bill M. but I believe that he probably thinks as I do in that you have to address the culture and provide compromises. Teaching them to farm chelonians and providing a source of chelonians for food are some of those compromises.

Then to your cause... the computer and the internet is great except that it is loosing power with its use by the armchair advocate.

Bill M. got into an argument with a well known chelonian advocat who suggested that the threat to chelonians by the Asian food markets was minimal at best if at all. Bill went to Asia and produced the now famous film to prove his point... that's how it's got to be done... good, accurate(very important for any value at all) and reasonable information... along with... of course... civility (another important factor if you want anyone to listen).



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Nigel Marven, who keeps a herd a Aldabran Tortoises personally might fit the bill?
Does anybody have regular contact with him?
Ed, I might not change your mind, but do you not agree that the Chinese food markets are decimating Chelonian fauna right across the world. Most Biologists, including Bill Mc Cord seem to think so?
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Old 20-01-2009, 12:05 AM   #23
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I tried to watch it but had to turn it off. Its sickening
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Old 20-01-2009, 12:28 AM   #24
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I did watch it to the bitter end but it haunted me afterwards
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Old 20-01-2009, 09:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I did watch it to the bitter end but it haunted me afterwards
The 26th January 09 is the Chinese New Year (Year of the OX). Would'nt it be good to encourage the Government of China to make it a New year of change??
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Old 21-01-2009, 11:01 PM   #26
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Stoped after the first glimpse of what was going to be shown..

Makes me sick and if only i could get those vile scum bags in a dark alley and see how they like it!!! grrr!!!

< Is sad now
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Old 21-01-2009, 11:15 PM   #27
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You all can shut me up in a heartbeat if you all can honestly state you are all Vegans.



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Stoped after the first glimpse of what was going to be shown..

Makes me sick and if only i could get those vile scum bags in a dark alley and see how they like it!!! grrr!!!

< Is sad now
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Old 22-01-2009, 12:59 AM   #28
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I can understand different cultures eating different things but why dont they kill it before
choping it up If i was there i would of put it out of its misery just before kicking that bloke in the head and spending the night in jail.(or getting the chop my self ).
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Old 22-01-2009, 01:21 AM   #29
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I suspect you don't eat oysters or clams... totally alive when eaten... Lobster/crab... boiled alive.

This is not a windup...

We have a passion for chelonians... that's not a bad thing.

The reality is that some people eat chelonians... is that a bad thing?

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I can understand different cultures eating different things but why dont they kill it before
choping it up If i was there i would of put it out of its misery just before kicking that bloke in the head and spending the night in jail.(or getting the chop my self ).
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Old 22-01-2009, 09:35 AM   #30
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Historical & Cultural practice may be the route of this current problem, but the practise in 2009 is blatently NOT SUSTAINABLE. To quote one of the most eminent scientists in the world on this subject Professor Shi Haiteo:
"Asia has a high diversity of turtle species, but this unique fauna is facing a perilous and uncertain future. The Chinese turtle trade is the primary threat to endangered turtle populations throughout Asia, primarily because of the long tradition of consuming turtles in China. This demand is fuelled by deeply held cultural beliefs and threatens all of Asia’s turtles. In China, turtles are a sought after delicacy because of the widespread popular belief, inspired by Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), that turtle meat and shell possess special nutritional or curative properties.

The large-scale consumption of turtle products results, in part, from false claims about the nutritional value of turtles. Combating a faith-based misconception with science is an uphill endeavour. Practitioners of TCM do not attempt to test the veracity of their claims. As a result, almost all of their recommendations lack an empirical and rational foundation. Nevertheless, turtle jelly, made from the ground-up shells of endangered species, has become popular in Hong Kong and several chain stores specializing in this expensive “health food” have opened in the past decade. Our study shows that, where nutritional composition and content are concerned, the human consumption of turtles could and should be completely substituted by other, often cheaper domestic sources and mineral supplements. All of these are widely available in China nowadays, particularly to those able to afford consuming turtles.

This demand has fuelled a highly profitable captive breeding industry that contributes to the ongoing extirpation of China’s wild turtle populations and is used to sanitise this damaging trade.

Almost every species is traded; only a very few Asian turtle species have not been reported in trade. These species are exceptionally rare and in some cases probably extinct. There are approximately 30 indigenous turtle species in China of which three are already presumed extinct. Once extremely common and widespread species, such as Mauremys reevesii and Pelodiscus sinensis are now also very difficult to find in the field, while Cuora trifasciata is critically endangered. However, they still face intense and targeted harvesting pressure.

All of China’s turtle and tortoise species are endangered as a result of human consumption. Turtle consumption in China is unsustainable with or without farming – and has led to the depletion of wild turtle populations across Asia and beyond. "

His views are echoed by ALL of the worlds leading Turtle experts.
It really is time for this cultural practice to be properly regulated, and widespread obuse of CITES rules signed up to by the Chinese government to be enforced.
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