Sexing Septimus

Ozric Jonathan · 10-01-2015, 03:01 PM

Danny's post about Jackie's torts reminded me about Septimus who definitely turned out to be a girl. She was a really small hermanni who has gown into a lovely lady (in my eyes anyway!) but when small did look quite like a boy and was sexed as a boy at that time.

Here's the link to the photos I put up in September 2011 when this wee tortoise was already 7 years old but still very small.

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...light=Septimus

Below are pics taken of Septimus today for comparison.

Catwoman63 · 10-01-2015, 05:15 PM

Ooo septimus is very lovely, and I would say female all the way

x

emma_mcraf · 10-01-2015, 05:41 PM

She's really beautiful. Even at 10, you can see she's petite. Is she still growing?

Ozric Jonathan · 11-01-2015, 05:34 PM

Thanks Emma and Bev for your kind comments! Yes she is still growing and is now 550g but it has taken her a decade to get there. All credit for growing slowly and evenly goes to Septimus, not the keeper.

Septimus has dug two really nice holes which looked perfect for laying eggs into but it's turned out she hasn't any at the moment. But it is a hopeful sign. I'm not certain of the ability of the candidate males.

emma_mcraf · 11-01-2015, 10:18 PM

Slow and steady, what a clever girl, and I think you have to take some credit for it too. Practice holes are great. When the time comes for her to dig to lay, she'll know exactly what to do.

Hanako · 14-01-2015, 04:11 PM

She is beautiful. Are you sure she is THH from Corsica? I would agree with the THH, but my ladies from Corsica have very different colour and shape. Septimus is more similar to my other THH from different localities. But I am not an expert so I can very easily be wrong.

Ozric Jonathan · 14-01-2015, 09:11 PM

Hi Hanako

no I can't be certain at all you are quite right there. Some years ago now, HermanniChris saw photos of the hermannis that I had and he thought they could be Corsican.

When I later wanted to get more hermannis I looked for a long time and then found a different breeder who said she believed the mother and father of her hatchlings were Corsican. She did not claim to be 100% sure and said if I wanted to be certain I would need to go to Corsica and look for one!! Now this lady also kept and bred not only the hermanni they call Varoise i.e. the tortoise from Var area of Southern France but also boetgerri hermannis as well as the Corse. This lady knew really quite a lot about the different hermannis and it was good enough for me for to say she believed the ones I bought to be Corse.

Septimus is one of the hermannis that Chris thought was Corsican about 8 years ago and that was from photos taken then.

I don't think it really matters at the end of the day but I like the idea that they are Corse hermannis. All these hermannis vary quite a lot and the occasional tortoise even seems to 'break the rules' by having a combination of characteristics that shouldn't be possible.

Hanako · 14-01-2015, 09:58 PM

Ozric, maybe send Chris a photo of her current appearance and ask whether he still think she is Corsican. Just out of curiosity. You are right, it doesn't really matter, but one is curious! Though I suppose considering that they are THH, they would be all quite similar, no matter what locality are they from...I thought yours is similar to one I have got from Apulia, but as I said, I can be wrong.

Ozric Jonathan · 15-01-2015, 12:05 AM

One thing I've noticed is that the colours can appear very different in one photo compared to another of the same tortoise. I find this can be quite confusing if we were trying to compare one of mine with one of your's.

I think you have a female, what is her SLC ? - and I will see if I have one of a similar length. That might help with a comparison?

That's a good idea about asking Chris about Septimus.

Here is one of septimus when she was tiny:

10-01-2015, 03:01 PM	#1
Ozric Jonathan Senior Member Adult Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: West of Scotland Posts: 4,226	Sexing Septimus Danny's post about Jackie's torts reminded me about Septimus who definitely turned out to be a girl. She was a really small hermanni who has gown into a lovely lady (in my eyes anyway!) but when small did look quite like a boy and was sexed as a boy at that time. Here's the link to the photos I put up in September 2011 when this wee tortoise was already 7 years old but still very small. http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...light=Septimus Below are pics taken of Septimus today for comparison. __________________ Testudo Hermanni Hermanni (Corse) tortoises Last edited by Ozric Jonathan; 10-01-2015 at 03:22 PM.

10-01-2015, 05:15 PM	#2
Catwoman63 Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South East England Posts: 6,739	Ooo septimus is very lovely, and I would say female all the way x __________________ BEV XXX 0.3.0 - T Horsfieldii (Xena, Zelda & Lilly) 2.2.0 - TG Terrestris (Zeus, Astreus / Zagreus & Alexia) 1.2.0 - Zebra Finches (Gunner / Bonnie & May) 0.1.0 - SBT (Hazel) 1.0.0 - FBD (Ted)

10-01-2015, 05:41 PM	#3
emma_mcraf Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 11,365	She's really beautiful. Even at 10, you can see she's petite. Is she still growing? __________________ Emma Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

11-01-2015, 05:34 PM	#4
Ozric Jonathan Senior Member Adult Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: West of Scotland Posts: 4,226	Thanks Emma and Bev for your kind comments! Yes she is still growing and is now 550g but it has taken her a decade to get there. All credit for growing slowly and evenly goes to Septimus, not the keeper. Septimus has dug two really nice holes which looked perfect for laying eggs into but it's turned out she hasn't any at the moment. But it is a hopeful sign. I'm not certain of the ability of the candidate males. __________________ Testudo Hermanni Hermanni (Corse) tortoises

11-01-2015, 10:18 PM	#5
emma_mcraf Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 11,365	Slow and steady, what a clever girl, and I think you have to take some credit for it too. Practice holes are great. When the time comes for her to dig to lay, she'll know exactly what to do. __________________ Emma Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

14-01-2015, 04:11 PM	#6
Hanako Member Hatchling Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 690	She is beautiful. Are you sure she is THH from Corsica? I would agree with the THH, but my ladies from Corsica have very different colour and shape. Septimus is more similar to my other THH from different localities. But I am not an expert so I can very easily be wrong.

14-01-2015, 09:11 PM	#7
Ozric Jonathan Senior Member Adult Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: West of Scotland Posts: 4,226	Hi Hanako no I can't be certain at all you are quite right there. Some years ago now, HermanniChris saw photos of the hermannis that I had and he thought they could be Corsican. When I later wanted to get more hermannis I looked for a long time and then found a different breeder who said she believed the mother and father of her hatchlings were Corsican. She did not claim to be 100% sure and said if I wanted to be certain I would need to go to Corsica and look for one!! Now this lady also kept and bred not only the hermanni they call Varoise i.e. the tortoise from Var area of Southern France but also boetgerri hermannis as well as the Corse. This lady knew really quite a lot about the different hermannis and it was good enough for me for to say she believed the ones I bought to be Corse. Septimus is one of the hermannis that Chris thought was Corsican about 8 years ago and that was from photos taken then. I don't think it really matters at the end of the day but I like the idea that they are Corse hermannis. All these hermannis vary quite a lot and the occasional tortoise even seems to 'break the rules' by having a combination of characteristics that shouldn't be possible. __________________ Testudo Hermanni Hermanni (Corse) tortoises

14-01-2015, 09:58 PM	#8
Hanako Member Hatchling Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 690	Ozric, maybe send Chris a photo of her current appearance and ask whether he still think she is Corsican. Just out of curiosity. You are right, it doesn't really matter, but one is curious! Though I suppose considering that they are THH, they would be all quite similar, no matter what locality are they from...I thought yours is similar to one I have got from Apulia, but as I said, I can be wrong.

15-01-2015, 12:05 AM	#9
Ozric Jonathan Senior Member Adult Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: West of Scotland Posts: 4,226	One thing I've noticed is that the colours can appear very different in one photo compared to another of the same tortoise. I find this can be quite confusing if we were trying to compare one of mine with one of your's. I think you have a female, what is her SLC ? - and I will see if I have one of a similar length. That might help with a comparison? That's a good idea about asking Chris about Septimus. Here is one of septimus when she was tiny: __________________ Testudo Hermanni Hermanni (Corse) tortoises

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