protein for redfoots

[EJ]

Well... I've offered more evidence to support the opinion that animal protein is not a requirement in RFs. I don't see anything that you've provided to show any evidence to support your position.

Have you actually read any of the one single reference you provided?

Well... if you did read the study you would find that the frequency of observations of RFs feeding on animal protein is... low. Ref table 201 of the reference I cited earlier.

It's an easy enough study concerning my own animals... I just don't feed them animal protein... There is only one variable... 11 animals kept under the same conditions... going 10 years so far.

Originally Posted by swad1000

No it doesn't mean we should be feeding animal protein to those tortoises, but neither does it show we shouldn't be feeding to Red foots, nor does it show they don't require it.

Congratulations on the Red foots that looks lovely, but again provides nothing to back up your claims, I assume they have lived indoors for there entire life and never had access to animal protein from wild sources such as insects, which again it has been shown Red foots readily consume.

If you want to use your own Red foots then any study needs to be correctly carried out.

[swad1000]

So like I've said absoluetly no evidence to support your postion.

The only evidence you have shown is they DO eat animal protein in the wild, I don't remember anyone saying it should form a major part of there diet.

And you have no control over what animal protein your captive red foots may consume from there enviroment.

So there fore has absolutely no bearing on what is being discussed.

Again you want to include something, it needs to done in a controlled enviroment, or a natural study. Your case is neither.

[EJ]

All tortoises probably eat animal protein based on the available studies that have been done... what's your point?

If animal protein is a required portion of the RFs diet... how much should you feed?

I really don't have to provide evidence for anything. Again... my animals speak for themselves and I think I have a pretty good amount of knowledge on the topic.

ummm... I haven't seen any of the RFs you've raised on the diet you support... curious.

Originally Posted by swad1000

So like I've said absoluetly no evidence to support your postion.

The only evidence you have shown is they DO eat animal protein in the wild, I don't remember anyone saying it should form a major part of there diet.

And you have no control over what animal protein your captive red foots may consume from there enviroment.

So there fore has absolutely no bearing on what is being discussed.

Again you want to include something, it needs to done in a controlled enviroment, or a natural study. Your case is neither.

[swad1000]

Originally Posted by EJ

All tortoises probably eat animal protein based on the available studies that have been done... what's your point?

If animal protein is a required portion of the RFs diet... how much should you feed?

I really don't have to provide evidence for anything. Again... my animals speak for themselves and I think I have a pretty good amount of knowledge on the topic.

ummm... I haven't seen any of the RFs you've raised on the diet you support... curious.

The point is you don't have any evidence at all, not one thing you have posted supports your postion.

Nothing at all, all your references conclude that Red foots do indeed consume animal protein.

And again we are back to your Red foots, which I am quite happy to admit look lovely.

But one simple question to they have access to any animal protein from there enviroment? Ie do they live out side for any portion of the year.

If so you have no knowledge or way of accounting for how much animal protein they are consuming.

So again provide absolutely nothing to back up that Red foots do not need animal protein.

I'll make this simple you bring one study that has been conducted that shows a Red foot that has not been feed any animal or artificial protein, and has never had any access to any animal or artificial protein and I will quite happily agree with you.

Until you are able to do that you have nothing to show that Red foots do not need some animal protein in there diets.

[EJ]

...uuummmm... ok.

Originally Posted by swad1000

The point is you don't have any evidence at all, not one thing you have posted supports your postion.

Nothing at all, all your references conclude that Red foots do indeed consume animal protein.

And again we are back to your Red foots, which I am quite happy to admit look lovely.

But one simple question to they have access to any animal protein from there enviroment? Ie do they live out side for any portion of the year.

If so you have no knowledge or way of accounting for how much animal protein they are consuming.

So again provide absolutely nothing to back up that Red foots do not need animal protein.

I'll make this simple you bring one study that has been conducted that shows a Red foot that has not been feed any animal or artificial protein, and has never had any access to any animal or artificial protein and I will quite happily agree with you.

Until you are able to do that you have nothing to show that Red foots do not need some animal protein in there diets.

[Paulg1]

Though this has been fun to follow, I think it's time for you kiddies to call a truce. Shake hands and go back to your respective corners and agree to disagree. Thank you both for a lively debate.

[linda.t]

Originally Posted by EJ

Every tortoise study I can think of shows that carrion is part of their diet... does that mean we should be feeding animal protein to all those tortoises?

Needless to say... you say RFs need animal protein... I say they don't.
You continue to feed animal protein to your tortoise... I will not.

btw... these are my RFs... they were 6 inches and under when I got them. That dish is 12 inches across... They get little to no animal protein...

that is one great picture your red foots are stunning.

[EJ]

Thank you. I'm very proud of them. They've taught me an unbelievable amount since acquiring them. The smallest one is 10 inches SCL. It blows me away that they were 7 - 5 inches scl when the first arrived.

Originally Posted by linda.t

that is one great picture your red foots are stunning.