Changes in EU/ Cites Regulations

[EJ]

If that is published in full... it seems fragmented.

As mentioned... some species listed have a wider range.

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Indeed it has, however, I suspect the source data is derived from the manifests of shipping documents and represents countries whom have traded the stated species in the past.
What is rather strange, is the fact that these EU CITES regulations are at odds with the wider international trade in fauna & Flora, which frankly can be considered rather confusing.

[Kirkie]

I still think its based on where the export trade is centered for the listed species. The trade hub will probably move and the embargo will widen.

[EJ]

Written as is... the burden of proof is on the shipper. If they suspect it is from... confiscated... very wrong. This protects nothing. Aldabras from the Seychells is what gets me. This tells me they don't have a clue and it is totally politically motivated.

Originally Posted by Kirkie

I still think its based on where the export trade is centered for the listed species. The trade hub will probably move and the embargo will widen.

[Kirkie]

I agree. The inclusion of ranched/farmed specimens on the list doesn't make sense in a conservation perspective unless they have suspicions over the practise. I really don't think the commercial breeding of Aldabra's falls into this category, maybe there is a motive beyond conservation.

[EJ]

The point I'm making is that they don't know the origin... so how can they control/regulate it. It seems really silly to me to be that specific... and the one point I made the Aldabra is not native to the seychells... is another wierd point. Why protect an animal that is not native to the area.

Ironicly... That seems to be a common practice... protecting introduced species. That just blows my mind. Does anyone else see the irony in that?

Originally Posted by Kirkie

I agree. The inclusion of ranched/farmed specimens on the list doesn't make sense in a conservation perspective unless they have suspicions over the practise. I really don't think the commercial breeding of Aldabra's falls into this category, maybe there is a motive beyond conservation.

[Kirkie]

As G says, they're going to go by the county of export on the import/export documentation. They were shipping thousands of Horsfields out of the Ukraine every year and theres no endemic population. I reckon they're nailing the lid shut on hubs where x amount of countries supply specimens to for export.

Aldabra's, I don't know enough about. Didn't they refuse introduction somewhere in the seychelles?.

[EJ]

Gerlich... started some stuff on that.

Russians... if they don't occur in the Ukrane... why protect them there?

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.

Aldabras are bred in quite large numbers in the Seychells... and exported.

Originally Posted by Kirkie

As G says, they're going to go by the county of export on the import/export documentation. They were shipping thousands of Horsfields out of the Ukraine every year and theres no endemic population. I reckon they're nailing the lid shut on hubs where x amount of countries supply specimens to for export.

Aldabra's, I don't know enough about. Didn't they refuse introduction somewhere in the seychelles?.

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Gerlich... started some stuff on that.

Russians... if they don't occur in the Ukrane... why protect them there?

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.

Aldabras are bred in quite large numbers in the Seychells... and exported.

Ed, I think you know Jim Collins? If you do suggest that you correspond with him on this latest regulation.

[andy1]

Sorry all

But reading the article and some of your responses leaves me thinking either youve all read some of it wrong or i have .

The Scientific Review Group has also concluded that, on the basis of the most recent available information, the suspension of the introduction into the Union of the following species should no longer be required:

Surely this means that the species listed on page 1 ,

— Aldabrachelys gigantea from the Seychelles;
— Geochelone elegans from Pakistan;
— Geochelone platynota from Myanmar;
— Indotestudo elongata from Bangladesh, China and India.

are exluded from the suspension, so in other words they are ok to be imported into the EU .

[egyptiandan64]

I know it sounds like that Andy, but every conservation agency I've seen is considering Geochelone platynota almost extinct in Myanmar. So why would the EU have concluded that importation from Myanmar to be a good thing for the species. If they are thinking that way it makes no sense and goes against CITES.
I just read it again and your right Andy They are going to let those animals in on the first page. Just makes no sense with the Burmese stars and the Northern Indian stars in Pakistan (which is the north edge of the range and they aren't found in many places in Pakistan). They must be smoking something good to come up with this.

Danny