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Old 01-03-2015, 01:01 PM   #51
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I do agree with both side and I do agree that an eye for an eye is not justice. But in this instance, I strongly agree that justice has been done if this is true. Again, just my opinion.

I was also a youngster when this terrible crime happened, but I do remember it. 8 years if not long enough and he was given chance upon chance after release.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:21 PM   #52
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On the back of this case the age of 'responsibility' was lowered to the age of 10 years.... And it was assessed that children at this age certainly knew right from wrong. Sadly I work with children that I can identify will have a 'troubled' life. A child who is angry about being in foster care and is violent to children in school who ask about his home life.... Children like these can turn into the violent adults who turn aggressive at the wrong look. The wrong punch could and have turned these children into murderers.
I have known children be groomed into pedophiles by their families.......drug runners.... Pimps..... What I am saying society has to take a certain amount of blame for the destruction of children's lives. Whereas I am not defending anything that Jon Vendables has done, not questioning any rehabilitation he should have had, or searching for revenge.... I do feel there will have been certain aspects of his day to day life, where his community will have been concerned for his welfare and these people failed to act on what they saw.
As for children 'being born good (or not bad)'.....yes every babe is born innocent and good. A lot depends on the way they are are nurtured.....there is a dark side in all of us, but correct parenting nurtures that out of us. What develops in their brain and minds is a product of genes and the way they are brought up (or left to bring themselves up). Psychotic tendencies can develop if the upbringing is lacking strong direction.
Adults with poor mental health issues ( and this is what psychotic tendencies basically incorporates) have to learn to deal with their mental health state.
I talk from experience when my daughter in law tried to drown my granddaughter because voices told her to do it. She is on an even keel now, but if she looks at other children her head voices tell her she is a pedophile.... ....but children with poor mental health issues cannot get the support they need. Over the years I have referred many children to the Mental Health service only to be told they don't reach their criteria...... And have lost count of the number of 13-18 years old have consequently jumped off a local bridge to their deaths. Stella x x
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:26 PM   #53
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Certainly adds another angle to the debate.
Of course, you are right, society does fail children at risk, teachers, family, friends, social workers. The system fails most people in need. It's a sad fact of life. Something certainly needs to change.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:55 PM   #54
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Over the years there have been so many cases where 'lessons should be learnt' and this hasn't happened... Victoria Climbie, bless her, suffered badly. New plans and legislation....communication between agencies...... Baby P.....same sad story.... Communities letting children down.....agencies not talking to each other.
As said before I work in a school and one of my cases is a 5/6 yr old with highly sexualised behaviour. We cannot get authorities to take on the responsibility so have to deal with everything within a school setting. As often reported to the authorities, we believe this child not only is a danger to his peers at the moment, but a danger to his sister he shares a bedroom with, and will eventually be a danger to females as he gets older and left to his own devises...... So what do we have here....a Jon Venerable in the making....... Or a Jimmy Saville, or Garry Glitter. X x x
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:14 PM   #55
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Either of whom are very frightening thoughts!
As a nurse I've seen how we fail the elderly for very different reasons but very similar issues there too.
However, we digress, no matter what, the original crime and circumstances since then have all lead to what we think could have possibly happened and I can see why someone would want to do it. It is, however, a pity that another life has been ruined and a family torn apart.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:47 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellanne View Post
On the back of this case the age of 'responsibility' was lowered to the age of 10 years.... And it was assessed that children at this age certainly knew right from wrong. Sadly I work with children that I can identify will have a 'troubled' life. A child who is angry about being in foster care and is violent to children in school who ask about his home life.... Children like these can turn into the violent adults who turn aggressive at the wrong look. The wrong punch could and have turned these children into murderers.
I have known children be groomed into pedophiles by their families.......drug runners.... Pimps..... What I am saying society has to take a certain amount of blame for the destruction of children's lives. Whereas I am not defending anything that Jon Vendables has done, not questioning any rehabilitation he should have had, or searching for revenge.... I do feel there will have been certain aspects of his day to day life, where his community will have been concerned for his welfare and these people failed to act on what they saw.
As for children 'being born good (or not bad)'.....yes every babe is born innocent and good. A lot depends on the way they are are nurtured.....there is a dark side in all of us, but correct parenting nurtures that out of us. What develops in their brain and minds is a product of genes and the way they are brought up (or left to bring themselves up). Psychotic tendencies can develop if the upbringing is lacking strong direction.
Adults with poor mental health issues ( and this is what psychotic tendencies basically incorporates) have to learn to deal with their mental health state.
I talk from experience when my daughter in law tried to drown my granddaughter because voices told her to do it. She is on an even keel now, but if she looks at other children her head voices tell her she is a pedophile.... ....but children with poor mental health issues cannot get the support they need. Over the years I have referred many children to the Mental Health service only to be told they don't reach their criteria...... And have lost count of the number of 13-18 years old have consequently jumped off a local bridge to their deaths. Stella x x

Well said,until you know all the right circumstances you cannot judge.
The newspapers will only print to sell, not always the truth.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:39 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy View Post
Well said,until you know all the right circumstances you cannot judge.
The newspapers will only print to sell, not always the truth.
And never the whole truth! If you knew absolutely all the facts of some things, the story would become boring and not news worthy. The media is all hype and sensationalism. x
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:37 PM   #58
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I agree with Stella , sandy and Becci, we shouldn't judge until we know all the details and we never do. So many children are failed, still.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Suze65 View Post
I agree with Stella , sandy and Becci, we shouldn't judge until we know all the details and we never do. So many children are failed, still.
The sad thing is, we never seem to learn our lessons, society and the system I mean!
I always thought the media blew a lot of things well out of proportion, but now having seen both sides of it, I know that they never print the cold hard facts, tbh, I don't pay much attention to it any more, what is the point when it's not accurate?
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:31 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becciwales View Post
The sad thing is, we never seem to learn our lessons, society and the system I mean!
I always thought the media blew a lot of things well out of proportion, but now having seen both sides of it, I know that they never print the cold hard facts, tbh, I don't pay much attention to it any more, what is the point when it's not accurate?
Absolutely, couldn't agree more. The media just want a good story and sell papers.
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