how much protein?

[pagan queen]

Following on from my thread about Kaytee exact parrot food, I and others are interested to see if anyone knows how much Protein is too much for a med tortoise.

It seems that when we first start doing research into what to feed a tortoise it comes up time and again that they shouldn't have protein in large amounts but what is a large amount?

[Helen M]

Now you've done it! Opened a huge can of worms there!



Helen xx

[ibizathetort]

[pagan queen]

Originally Posted by Helen M

Now you've done it! Opened a huge can of worms there!



Helen xx

Lots of protein in worms.

"Runs for cover"

[yuna1971]

Innnnn the red corner we have................
Innnnn the blue corner we have...............

Ding Ding....

[yuna1971]

Coral and Ladbrokes are taking bets Im told....

[ziggy's owner]

I don't have a clue

[NATURALIS]

Too much protein is bad, not enough protein is bad , and the wrong sorts of protein are bad.

[pagan queen]

Originally Posted by red foot marg

Too much protein is bad, not enough protein is bad , and the wrong sorts of protein are bad.

And the breakdown of that is......

[skildpadde]

Really should be getting on with something else, but couldn't resist
Quick blitz of my available books came up with the following on the subject:

'Whilst tortoises are attracted to meat and other animal protein sources (e. g. dog food, cat food) the addition of animal protein will decrease the consumption of needed plant carbohydrate and fibre. Excess protein may contribute to metabolic gout, as it must be eliminated as uric acid. Overfeeding is far more commonplace than underfeeding. Commercial pelleted diets promoted as tortoise feeds are largely composed of grains and may not contain the nutrients needed in the proper formulation. At present their usage is not recommended."
BSAVA Manual of Exotic Pets, fifth edition, 2010, p253

'Proteins are essential building blocks for the body, but however low it may appear to us, the protein content of their natural feeder plants is entirely sufficient in quantity for the protein metabolism of the tortoises. In order to conserve body fluids during the hot summer months, Hermann's tortoises do not dissolve and excrete the breakdown products of their protein metabolism with urine, as is typically the case in most mammals. Instead, these are crystallized in the for of water-insoluble urates and preliminarily stored in the kidneys. Depending on the water household of the body, they may then be excreted together with more or less urine. These uric acid crystals then appear as a white to sepia coloured blob next to the faeces. The organism of the tortoise is only able to convert and excrete relatively small amounts of these "dry" protein metabolic waste products at a time, however. If their food supplies too much protein, for example by containing protein of animal origin, the kidneys will become clogged within a very short period of time. Uric acid crystals will therefore be deposited in other organs instead. Inevitably, the final result will be arteriosclerosis and gout, the two most common causes of death in captive tortoises.
It follows that the tortoises must never ever be fed with animal protein in whatever form. Furthermore, the kidneys of a tortoise do not differentiate between animal and plant proteins, and the waste products are stored and excreted in exactly the same manner. Considering that the protein content of a plant is highest in delicate young shoots, the animal should preferably receive only mature plants.'
Wolfgang Wegehaupt: Naturalistic keeping and breeding of Herman's tortoises, p196

'Food for these tortoises should be based on plant matter that is rich in calcium (ca. 2%) and raw fibre (at least 12%, better 20-30%). It should not contain easily digested, ballast-deficient constituents (such as tender lettuce leaves and herbs, sweet fruit) and starch, or food rich in carbohydrates (such as muesli, bread, pastry, pasta or rice). There should also be little fat (10% at maximum) and not more than 20% in proteins (25% in case of juveniles). All percentages quoted here refer to dry mass.'
Holger Vetter: Hermann's tortoise, p 133-134

*At last some actual amounts!*

'Mediterranean tortoises, as herbivores, obtain most of their energy (55-75%) from carbohydrates, with less from protein (15-35%)and little (less than 10%) from fats. Now lets look at their natural diet. For wild T Graeca it consist mostly of the plantain family Plantago (30%), the Daisy family Compositae (26%) and bedstraw family (25%). Of particular note is that this diet gives an average calcium to phospherus ration of 3.5:1 and a typical protein content of 2.75%'
Lance Jepson: Mediterranean tortoises, p43

And that, you'll be relieved to know, was all I could find about 'How much protein?'

It's not very clear, is it?