Just found out that everything I was told was lies... :(

[EJ]

Your point is totally true.

The problem is that not everyone who would like to keep tortoises is born with all the knowledge and expertise to properly provide the conditions you suggest. In the interm the new tortoise keeper would probably be better off learning the simple basics just to keep the tortoise alive and healthy. As time goes on and they learn more they can change their practices... if they desire. The can learn how to set up a habitat outdoors in their specific climate. They can learn exactly what weeds to feed to provide the proper nutrition without risk of creating a nutritional imbalance.

We really don't have different points of view except for that my view extends beyond yours. From my standpoint there are many more options for keeping a pet... or whatever... tortoise. Sorry if you see that as a bad thing. The tortoises don't seem to mind a bit.

Originally Posted by red foot marg

Alan, with the greatest respect to you, tortoise's have survived for millions of years , with out viv's and without pellets, part of good husbandry is keeping them slimulated by putting some effort into there surrounding ie: making it as natural as possible. To promote fattening them and keeping them in small boxes without uvb is a million miles away from the ideal , surely trying to give them as close to natural life is what we should be aiming for , which can be done given a little thought. How can feeding them pellets for a few years compare with millions of years eating wild plants ??. I have never said my way is the only way but i do believe nature cannot be bettered so why try to change it ??for the doubters go study them in the wild watch them hunt for food watch them interact with there land scape some days traveling along way for water and or food which gives them exercise. All i am is a voice trying to put my side across , before i'm judged go look for yourselfs.

[ibizathetort]

Originally Posted by stells

Both sides need to actually do this then... as both have differing views... both won't have what the other says... and we allow both to have their opinion... both are just the same... but one side does not take it to personal insults like the other...

Its quite simple really... there is more than one way... to fry an egg

I understand and agree with that....apart from the insult bit - remember you PM'd me only a few weeks ago after I received a very personal insult off a prominent member? So not everyone is whiter than white (me included)

[EJ]

The research was obviously very limited. The OP seems to have recognised this which seems to be the reason they posted to the general forum for more information.

Hijacked... huh... sigh.

Unless removed... I'm going to continue to provide the unslanted information I've always provided and folks can truely decide for themselves what is best for them.

Again... I didn't start this crap

Originally Posted by ibizathetort

I think the frustration (tell me if I've got the wrong end of the stick RFM) for RFM is the OP appears to have done some research hence the original statement that vivs aren't good, the diet was wrong....they came here looking to change to a more natural way of keeping their tortoise but it seemed to be hijacked. Thats totally fine if someone wants to come along and present another way but just dont be like a dog with a bone and not let go until the arguments break out.

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by ibizathetort

I think the frustration (tell me if I've got the wrong end of the stick RFM) for RFM is the OP appears to have done some research hence the original statement that vivs aren't good, the diet was wrong....they came here looking to change to a more natural way of keeping their tortoise but it seemed to be hijacked. Thats totally fine if someone wants to come along and present another way but just dont be like a dog with a bone and not let go until the arguments break out.

Your 100% right there

[Pussygalore]

I have seen photo's of Ej's torts as have others and they look every bit as good as others, which to me goes to prove that there are more than one way to look after torts, we just need to work out which bits of all the care offered we wish to try. I often use a bit of advice from here a bit from there and as long as I'm getting the results which I want then I can't be going far wrong. I have happy content healthy animals and that's all that matters, who's advise I use is my choice, when I first had my torts I the same as many others I felt obliged almost to follow certain ways, it takes time looking after torts to realize that you can make you own decisions and that other ways do work as well.

[Paulg1]

As to offering natural.. Look at some of the studies done of arguably the most studied tortoise in the world, the gopher tort. Their diet consists of thousands of different plant species eaten ,to include some that are poisonous, at varying times depending on the specific needs at a given time. It's virtually impossible to provide our torts with what they "need" with the limited variance of weeds and grasses that WE CHOOSE. So in that case why would a formulated complete diet that has been studied for torts,for many years, be bad? IMO it has to be better than such a limited nutritional diet we can provide in our "weed picking". No?

[EJ]

I just don't get it... why can't we all just get along.

[NATURALIS]

This is all one sided thats plain to see , what a bunch you really are !!!

[ibizathetort]

Originally Posted by stells

Yes and if i remember you had baited the person to the point of no return...

Right if this thread is not going to get back on track... its going into lock down... i have said my piece... now its up to you lot... to either get this back to where it should be... or not... i have better things to do than sit and referee all day...