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Old 10-04-2012, 01:39 PM   #21
kathypeter
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Default Set up ? no way

If it was a problem with the set up all 4 would have sufferred.2 are now over 100grams.they are from a differant female and the same age. its the 2 from another female who only laid 5 eggs and now has had 4 die that the problem lies .the set up is correct with up to date uvs and heat on stats.plus grown weeds,cobs and vitimins. all my other tortoises including 2 herman hatchings are fit and well.Its not aways the owners that take the blame, the breeders have to take some blame for
constantly over breeding these pets
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:42 PM   #22
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But I have hatchlings from the same female which are fine, also what size table, what temps, cold hot end????
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:46 PM   #23
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Would love to see your set up..
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:39 PM   #24
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Before anyone gets the blame... A full diagnosis must be established ie from a reputable experience Herp vet. There could be a number of factors here, Could just be one of the sad things that happens as it does in life im afraid.

Has a post mortem been carried out to determine death, hows and whys??
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:45 PM   #25
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note... the blame goes to the keeper if there is any blame at all.

Every animal I lost was my fault.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:21 PM   #26
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As the breeder of these leopard tortoises in question I feel I must respond to this thread

I'm deeply upset that this has had to be posted around the Internet, but that's not my concern here. 
I must explain first that I have 2 egg laying females, the babies I sell are in my own knowledge healthy and well looked after. 
I sold you (kathy) 3 babies early last year. You informed me that 1 had passed away . I agreed with you to replace the tortoise free of charge and you also wanted to purchase one more that I sold at a reduced rate. And you gave me 2 juvenile leopards tortoises that in my vets words where in a "terrible state" that I understand was nothing to do with you or your care ! As you have told me the story of there early life. But they are now doing really well there shells are considerably better and there weight gain is very good. 

Last year I sold 56 baby tortoises over the year, I had one death out of all of those,  that was due to a runt with a deformity from birth, I also had a few eggs that failed to be fertile, but nothing that would have caused me any alarm or caused the best breeder any alarm (as its nature and nothing's perfect) 
As you have said that these last two where from a batch of 5 eggs of which 1 died and 2 failed to hatch and you had the only 2 live ones. My leopards haven't just laid 5 eggs at one time they normally lay 10-12 eggs at one time and the last clutch was 16 eggs. 
There was also a comment about breeding between tortoises of the same family ? I will list there ages and where about all my leopards have been rescued from. 
Shelly: female rescued from Wolverhampton aged 12-13 years old. 
Shearer: female rescued from Wolverhampton aged 12-13 years old. 
Sammy: male rescued from Newcastle upon Tyne aged 10 years old
Smithy: male rescued from Worcester aged believed to be 8-10 years old 
Honey: female rescued from a SW member aldershot aged 6 years old. 
As you can see there is no connection that I can make that will interfere with genetics. I also have juv leopards but have had no contact with the females. 

My hatchlings are kept in a indoor rabbit cage in the winter I use a 160w megaray bulb and summer months I use a 100w basking bulb with 10.0 UVB strip light, I use a mix of sterilised soil and reddy grass or dried just grass the same as I use for my adults. I have seen on another tread about the juv leopards that you housed those on a 8 x 5 foot table was this also used to house these baby tortoises as the amount of heat that would be required to house hatchlings would be very vast and they might not have tolerated the exposure to not having a more direct heat and uvb source plus there would be a issue with draughts etc. you also mentioned in a phone conversation that the table was placed in a conservatory,  as posted by other people leopards are not the easiest tortoises to keep at the best of times. 
I also would like to ask if there was a problem at the start of you owning these last 2 tortoises why when you posted in this thread that they have been "vet checked" was there not anything that I could  not detect brought up with the rep vet. I have limited knowledge compared to a vet so if he didn't find anything then how can I ?? 
I try my best with my hatchlings and my rescues that get brought to me and this is the first time that I have had any problems, I only sold my tortoise's to help with the cost and upkeep of my hobby looking after tortoises. If I wanted to make a business out of it I could, i could have incubated a lot more eggs than I did and charge a lot more than I do. 

It deeply saddens me that I have had to come on here and defend myself but I feel not all facts have been told 
I know kathy you are struggling to get about and your husbands long term illness. So a replacement is out of the question, you have asked for a part refund but I feel the pressure you are plying with talk on forums is not helping the situation. 

Again I would never think of selling a tortoise with a known illness or a thought of been possibly ill would ever cross my mind
I have even been contacted by people that have brought my babies in the past to buy more this year so I know most people have been happy with the product and after care I supply. And I'm always at hand for anyone. 

I cannot foresee the future of every baby I sell but I do believe what I have sold in the past is at a more than good quality. So I do believe I'm not at liberty to give a refund unless there is a postmortem that says the death was caused by me or directly from me. 

I will not be making anymore comments on this tread but will be more than happy to talk to kathy in private. 
Many thanks for your time in this not so nice situation Chris mould.  
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:06 PM   #27
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Nice to hear your side of the story Chris, and I have to say I agree with you
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Old 13-04-2012, 07:50 PM   #28
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lots of the statements on these threads are untrue, I have NOT named the breeder and dont propose to now,I have not accused anyone of brother to sister matings that was a suggestion made to me as one of a possible cause as it had happend to a breeder who I knew.I dont keep babies in 8x5 open tables or in a conservatory they are in the study in a 6x2 open ended (instruction from the breeder) viv.,I have followed all advice from the breeder the only reason I came on here as I thought it would help if anyone had had the same problem and how they got over it. I have no dispute with the breeder and never had.a lot of help was give from november when first contacted over the problem,. the 2 other hatchings are over 110 grams and I would have no problem buying from the bredder again.I thought this forum was to help not to lay blame and am totally upset as to what has happened,
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Old 13-04-2012, 07:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TillyTortoise View Post
Would love to see your set up..
Hi Tilly if I knew how to send pictures I would,it would prove I have not been neglecting my tortoises.
this on top of loosing chilli has really upset me, I dont know what has gone wrong.
I thought the forum was here to help or give other ideas what I could do
and not to lay blame.
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Old 13-04-2012, 08:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnt toast View Post
Sorry for your loss.

I had a similar senario with a Herman hatchling. (most likely cause suspected to be dehydration at an early age) Anyway I will tell you what eventually helped her Abidec baby growth vitamins (orange box, sainsburys, most chemists) You need to bath the remaining baby lots, as much as possible & add approx an inch in the dispenser to one of her baths per day. I used to seperate this baby & offer food after each bath as this got more into her. Little & often was the key. Then return her to her sibling. Mine was 15 grams & her weight didnt change at all for nearly the first 18months, she ate but didnt gain a single gram.

Dont loose heart my little Rambo is now 310grams & like a solid stone
The above action might help your little tort.

& This is how to post pictures:

http://shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/s...ad.php?t=29355
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