Year of the Hermanni Hermanni

[HermanniChris23]

He has always incubated at too low of a temperature and has had a serious problem producing all males for years. I keep telling him to raise it but he is scared to. So, temperature most likely wouldn't be a part of it. He keeps the eggs at 84F and has told me at times it drops even further.

I have noticed my females are particularly aggressive when they are gravid. I have some videos of a few of mine acting this way while they were in an indoor holding unit. Once placed outside, the aggressors immediately began to nest within a few hours of being out there. They would act much like Ibera do when displaying aggression.

[EJ]

Chris, very nice and informative response.

Originally Posted by HermanniChris23

This question is raised quite often...
Just some personal experience for you.

[EJ]

...and also have ranges that are very close almost to the point of overlaping.

I suspect those comming from the farms in Slovenia are pretty well mixed as far as these two races go.

Originally Posted by HermanniChris23

Yes I have noticed on many occasions just how aggressive male T. hermanni hermanni are. I've also corresponded with several keepers in France, Italy, Spain and a few others areas who report that their males are overly aggressive as well. They are a very agile and quick animal when they want to be.

The confusion surrounding T. h. boettgeri and T. h. hercegovinensis is newer and definitely somewhat worse than anything concerning T. h. hermanni because aside from just a few characteristics, the animals look very much alike. Up until recent years, most keepers thought they had T. h. boettgeri until the information on T. h. hercegovinensis surfaced publicly again. This inevitably opened a can of worms. In the USA, T. h. hercegovinensis and boettgeri have mixed for years simply due to the lack of viable information to collectors and keepers. I do have a friend who noticed a big change in fertility once he separated his subspecies. After 4 years of keeping them separate, he experienced a jump from 60% fertility to 90%.

There is a decent amount of literature on the cross breeding of the subspecies of Hermann's tortoises. Much of it covers the fact that fertility drops considerably when the subspecies have been mixed and there have been stories of female T. h. hermanni dying egg bound because the eggs were too large to pass when bred with a male T. h. boettgeri. This is something I have not experienced obviously because my subspecies are kept separate.

[Kirkie]

Almost all the Slovenian tortoises I have are Hercegovinensis which is odd as the farms original "captive bed" breeding stock came from Macedonia which doesn't have an endemic population of Herc's.

Macedonia is also why you don't see many young Hercegovinensis for sale anymore. Their farm and the one in Turkey produce Boettgeri and have priced the Slovenian place out of the market to the extent that the incubate to order.

[EJ]

I had a giggle at this. I had about 30 of the Slovenian Hermanns. I so regret not making a photo record of all the animals before passing them on.

I have 1.2 for myself which I will post the photos of... you can be the first to ID them for me.

Rereading your post you kind of make my point.

Originally Posted by Kirkie

Almost all the Slovenian tortoises I have are Hercegovinensis which is odd as the farms original "captive bed" breeding stock came from Macedonia which doesn't have an endemic population of Herc's.

Macedonia is also why you don't see many young Hercegovinensis for sale anymore. Their farm and the one in Turkey produce Boettgeri and have priced the Slovenian place out of the market to the extent that the incubate to order.

[Kirkie]

I'll look forward to it. Pointless me looking though as my Hercegovinensis don't look like anyone elses.

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=34333

I can vouch for the lower incubation temps though. I had Boettgeri and Herc's lay on the same day and hatch on the same day with a 3.5C incubation temperature difference.

Anyway wildly off topic now, stunning tortoises Chris.

[EJ]

I don't know about the variences of egg incubation in Testudo but in Leopards they can vary from 90 to over 400 days. All of my Kleinmanni hatched between about 90 to 120 days. In Leopards the duration does vary by individual but is also consistant between individuals.

Originally Posted by Kirkie

I'll look forward to it. Pointless me looking though as my Hercegovinensis don't look like anyone elses.

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=34333

I can vouch for the lower incubation temps though. I had Boettgeri and Herc's lay on the same day and hatch on the same day with a 3.5C incubation temperature difference.

Anyway wildly off topic now, stunning tortoises Chris.