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Old 23-09-2009, 04:16 AM   #21
Star
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This was probably one of the main articles I could find, on RNS
http://www.tortoise.org/archives/brown2.html
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Old 23-09-2009, 04:17 AM   #22
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The main problem... especially with these argumentative topics... there is no simple answer. What really screws it up is that there are those who try to say there is a simple answer because they believe that the tortoise keepers outside of themselves are idiots and have to be 'guided'.

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Agreed..
Its a shame that with such a wide source of Tortoise owners, that some form of research/evidence gathering, couldn't be implemented and gathered right here..........simple questions with simple answers........obviously some would need more detail, but an opportunity seems to be missed here..

It would definitely highlight many contributing factors and even if it wasn't seen as an appropriate methods for research, it would definitely be of some benefit
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Old 23-09-2009, 04:22 AM   #23
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What they fail to mention was that there is debate among researchers as there is among keepers on this topic.

There is still debate as to whether RNS/Mycoplasma is normal or if it is introduced. It is way more complex than stated.

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This was probably one of the main articles I could find, on RNS
http://www.tortoise.org/archives/brown2.html
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Old 23-09-2009, 04:28 AM   #24
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I guess I mean more of a research section to SW........one where information can be placed.

For example:

A tortoise keeper has 6 tortoise, for over five years. they have been kept under these conditions (given), and the results are........... More information and details would be required, but it would definitely aid in a wider understanding.

I'm not saying it would be scientific but it would definitely raise awareness and highlight the main factors, with repetition in any given circumstance, if it repeatedly occurs under the same conditions with other keepers.



I guess I am just trying to find solutions, but not simple one

Nothing is ever simple...........thats whats special about working it all out.
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Old 23-09-2009, 04:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ View Post
What they fail to mention was that there is debate among researchers as there is among keepers on this topic.

There is still debate as to whether RNS/Mycoplasma is normal or if it is introduced. It is way more complex than stated.
Agreed, trying to find the evidence and research is very difficult, especially if your access to other tortoise keepers is limited, then your even more restricted, and as stated above, discussions can be bias, even though they do raise awareness.
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Old 23-09-2009, 04:59 AM   #26
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That's a cool idea.

I've been doing a similar idea in that when I see a photo of a nice tortoise I ask for a history. I've gotten some neat stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star View Post
I guess I mean more of a research section to SW........one where information can be placed.

For example:

A tortoise keeper has 6 tortoise, for over five years. they have been kept under these conditions (given), and the results are........... More information and details would be required, but it would definitely aid in a wider understanding.

I'm not saying it would be scientific but it would definitely raise awareness and highlight the main factors, with repetition in any given circumstance, if it repeatedly occurs under the same conditions with other keepers.



I guess I am just trying to find solutions, but not simple one

Nothing is ever simple...........thats whats special about working it all out.
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Old 23-09-2009, 08:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star View Post
Agreed..

From experience....when your out of your depth, and during the in between stage of gathering information, you do rely on others in a similar position as yourself, but with additional knowledge, to gain advice from
When I was a lad at school and knew nothing I took it for granted that everything we were being taught was fact. Years later I discovered a lot of things that I had thought to be fact because I had learned it from my teachers, turned out not to be the case.

Keeping an open mind about everything is always a good idea.

BTW I don't know what some of the kids learn these days but I see young people who are doctors, vets and solicitors etc that can't spell or are crap with their grammar. I have seen it on the websites of major companies and it's not a one-off, the same mistakes are repeated on various pages. I've always wondered how these folks get through their exams to go on to become a doctor or whatever rambling now
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Old 23-09-2009, 09:19 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ View Post
That's a cool idea.

I've been doing a similar idea in that when I see a photo of a nice tortoise I ask for a history. I've gotten some neat stuff.
I'd be interested to read some of your research if you ever fancy sharing it

What you've said is also valuable, it could easily be a form that’s filled out, like your history questions. They could cover all aspects of the tortoises care, keepers fill out the form (either logging into a site or sent the form in an email which they send back (addresses easily gathered from a site such as SW, on agreement to register by the tortoise keepers). I'm surprised this hasn't been put into action already by certain trusts....This would also give a more uniformed collection of data. These forms could be issued out yearly, to record developments and changes, they would also highlight the differences between locations.......indoor/outdoor enclosures, feeding patterns, humidity levels, shell development, illnesses...........the amount of valuable data that could be collected, is endless...you could even have a medical section, where by treatments are logged (for set conditions) and the diagnosis from the vets included....recovery time, fatalities, the list goes on.

It would involve a team that would need to gather the collected data and record the findings, but I wouldn’t think that this would be a problem as many members would gladly volunteer to help and be a part of such a large research project, I included...
We are only limited by that which we allow ourselves to achieve, and if we reach further out, we could easily reach beyond our own expectations.

Sorry if I have gone on.
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Old 23-09-2009, 09:36 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caledonia View Post
When I was a lad at school and knew nothing I took it for granted that everything we were being taught was fact. Years later I discovered a lot of things that I had thought to be fact because I had learned it from my teachers, turned out not to be the case.

Keeping an open mind about everything is always a good idea.

BTW I don't know what some of the kids learn these days but I see young people who are doctors, vets and solicitors etc that can't spell or are crap with their grammar. I have seen it on the websites of major companies and it's not a one-off, the same mistakes are repeated on various pages. I've always wondered how these folks get through their exams to go on to become a doctor or whatever rambling now
You ramble...........never

I agree that as you develop, much of what’s fed to you is taken as gospel and as we grow, so do our concepts and thoughts, which begin to take on a different direction and what we once believed to be true, is questioned more.

I wonder Alan, could the lack of Grammar and spelling be a result of the teaching methods which have changed over the years...........the teaching processes have been edited through the generations and resemble almost nothing of that which would have been taught to you....... all them years ago

I also wonder if certain conditions play a role in the developments of some individuals, such as Dyslexia....I am interested in further understanding how, over the years of adapted and ever changing teaching approaches, have altered the input levels of students (with and without learning difficulties).......it would definitely be an interesting read.
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Old 23-09-2009, 09:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star View Post
I'd be interested to read some of your research if you ever fancy sharing it

What you've said is also valuable, it could easily be a form that’s filled out, like your history questions. They could cover all aspects of the tortoises care, keepers fill out the form (either logging into a site or sent the form in an email which they send back (addresses easily gathered from a site such as SW, on agreement to register by the tortoise keepers). I'm surprised this hasn't been put into action already by certain trusts....This would also give a more uniformed collection of data. These forms could be issued out yearly, to record developments and changes, they would also highlight the differences between locations.......indoor/outdoor enclosures, feeding patterns, humidity levels, shell development, illnesses...........the amount of valuable data that could be collected, is endless...you could even have a medical section, where by treatments are logged (for set conditions) and the diagnosis from the vets included....recovery time, fatalities, the list goes on.

It would involve a team that would need to gather the collected data and record the findings, but I wouldn’t think that this would be a problem as many members would gladly volunteer to help and be a part of such a large research project, I included...
We are only limited by that which we allow ourselves to achieve, and if we reach further out, we could easily reach beyond our own expectations.

Sorry if I have gone on.
I really like this idea. I keep my own notes about my torts, not just weight and length but other stuff like eating patterns etc. A form in which you could add detail and update which is available for others to look at and compare with would be excellent. Like a living reference
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