Baby Egyptian tortoises - Page 4

sandy · 13-07-2006, 12:56 PM

Just wondering if you got care sheets with your egyptians, as they are not the easiest of
tortoises to keep?

Most dealer dont have the welfare of the tortoise in mind, just the profits. This is why you
got such a reaction to DC.

tgidarren · 13-07-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah

Sorry we did not mean to come over nasty, we have had very bad dealing with Dean he is not a nice man, he is nice when money is involved. How are you sure that they where the breeders? Dean is not allowed on this forum or on most other forums.

I wish you all the best with your tortoises and I am sure they are very healthy and happy.

Hi Lucy as Sarah said there is nothing personal meant against yourself. I've had dealings with Dean and he is not a nice man. In my opinion and many other tortoise friendly people, he most definitely is not one to trust. As Sarah said he's very nice when money is involved. Here's a copy of an E-mail he sent to someone about me which was entitled beware o'darren.

"The following is an email sent to you by DCTORTOISES via your account on
dctortoises. If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments you
find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the following
address:

dean@dctortoises.co.uk

Include this full email (particularly the headers). Please note that the reply
address to this email has been set to that of DCTORTOISES.

Message sent to you follows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Darren puts adds every where asking people that he can rehome tortoises in a
south faceing garden in kent , i have had many complaints that when he is on the
phone he seems nice then when you meet him all he wants is your tortoise and he
is very abusive towards people i have had a few people even say he intimidated
them almost to the point they gave him their tortoise/s free . he is out for one
thing free tortoises any way he can. I had one lady i rehomed her tortoise for
her to a different home who had simulkar tortoises and she said he scared her so
much she was going to phone the police after he left luckly without her
tortoise. he tells people they are breaking the law owning tortoises with out
paperwork this is an untrue fact as we alll know with old tortoises. he is sly
and dangerious i would stay well clear i have had many run ins with him one
being him ringing me all hours of the day waking my 2 and 3 year old girls it
has started again and i guess it is him i have in
formed the police again and will ciontinue to log the calls from him as i have
a phone that people can not withhold numbers so i know who it is i never reply
to his calls as he just stays quiey or hangs up when i answer. if your mum wants
to rehome her tortoise she should contact the ************ or the british
chelonian group they check out all new owners or i can give you some numbers of
good people . i do not rehome anymore as i am classed as a trader and it is not
the done thing to suggest rehoming tortoises myself. i would love to help with
numbers of people that are willing to give your mums tortoise a good home if you
yourself can not house it. if you can then i can help with houseing and advice
on keeping an older tortoise. sorry if i came across a bit angry before but
tortoises are my life i mainly have very rare species that are very hard to keep
and have even bred them some take years to settle in and getting their
enviroment correct for them sao i spend many ho
urs with them they are what matters nothing else please feel free to email me
with any questions you feel you can not put on the forum incase of
problems.thanks dean"

Believe me Clackett is poison.
I wish you the best of Luck with your tortoises.

Kind Regards
Darren

clairekentuk · 13-07-2006, 01:47 PM

Hmm I phoned Deans shop in Canterbury kent almost 2 years ago in my quest for a tortoise or two and he is not a nice person. I was looking to buy some Hermanns and he gave advice on how to keep etc. I booked an appointment to see the torts, but I cancelled as I found a breeder.

He wasnt polite and he wasnt amused and that is to put it lightly. In the end the only thing i did wrong was to ask to visit his shop and then change my mind. At least I phoned.

That mail doesnt sound like Darren, very unkind ( and untrue) thing to say about someone who is extremely helpful when it comes to torts. Ive seen Dean turn on people on other forums and he is vermin.

Anyway, you are very lucky to have a pair of egyptians. Hope you enjoy them! Id stay clear of Dean in future but of course it is up to you. That doesnt mean the tortoises you got arent healthy and it doesnt mean you didnt get them for an extremely good price bearing in mind they are extremely rare, highly sought after and so very precious. Stick around here if you can, we'll all love to hear how they are getting on and if you become sucessful in breeding, i wanna be the first to place my order!

I know the TT have kept/keep and breed egyptians so if you need any advice im sure they will be happy to help with any questions you may have.

lucy1234 · 13-07-2006, 11:59 PM

Hi i am total blown away by the reaction i have recieved by a few comments i have spoken to dean today and he said people don't like him as they don't like him selling tortoises that are from other breeders. I find him to be very helpfull we had a long phone call and he has even sent me some links for extra care sheets and advice that i have looked through and found very helpfull. I am still amaized at the email above that he sent as this seems a little harsh towards darren but i did contact darren when looking for tortoises and he did not even want me to go to his home to view the tortoises where as dean was very open and welcomed me. Infact quiet a few people i contacted wanted to either meet me in a place or deliver them i wanted to meet dean first and to meet the breeders as well. So sorry to dissagree with many of you but i found dean nothing but helpfull and open he even showed me his own collection of tortoises. I don't think he sells alot of tortoises compaired to some breeders i spoke to and emailed infact i think the breeders i spoke to came across more shaddy as if they had something to hide. I have reciebved some nice emails from this site and will reply to the nice ones but sorry to upset anyone but i will not agree that dean is a nasty person after my hour long chat today and my 2 hour visit to his home when i collected the animals. Again sorry to upset anyone.

tgidarren · 14-07-2006, 12:16 AM

[quote="lucy1234"]i did contact darren when looking for tortoises and he did not even want me to go to his home to view the tortoises quote]

Hi Lucy,

The thing is, it is my home and not a centre that supplies tortoises. Dean sells so many tortoises from home his premises is registered with Canterbury City Council as a pet shop. The thing that grates on most small breeders is that for a long time Dean imported tortoises. It has nothing to do with the fact he sells other people's tortoises and he is very aware of this. Dean can be very economical with the truth.

Anyway my reason for replying is that I'd like my tortoises to remain with me. The more people who call here, the more people who know about them and the greater chance of me waking up one morning and them not being there. That is why I do not want people I don't know calling on me. If I meet someone and I think they're o.k then I invite them here.
Dealers make an awful lot of money (especially when they import cheap tortoises) and it is financially viable for them to pay & install surveillance systems, for the rest of us it isn't viable.

Sincerely good luck with your tortoises.

Have you any photos?

TgiDarren

clairekentuk · 14-07-2006, 07:22 AM

I personally think any breeder who allows people to see their entire collection of tortoises to sell just one or two hatchlings is a little foolish. What better way if you are a thief intending to get yourself a nice group than to answer an add for a hatchling.
The breeder I got mine from did allow me to her home, but not before meeting me at the train station.

Its ok for a registered pet shop as insurance would cover it, but for most breeders they are much loved pets that are completely priceless. Dean is about making money and this seperates him from most breeders.

This would be my reservation with selling babies and why my husband and I have decided not to sell. Is it worth losing dozens of tortoises in some cases for just 100 quid ?

We have made the decision that it isnt which is why we will endeavour to rehome any offspring once our garden is full!

It certainly isnt a reason to doubt a breeders integrity.

shootinglou79 · 14-07-2006, 09:47 AM

(darren=) The thing is, it is my home and not a centre that supplies tortoises. Dean sells so many tortoises from home his premises is registered with Canterbury City Council as a pet shop.

[quote="clairekentuk"]I personally think any breeder who allows people to see their entire collection of tortoises to sell just one or two hatchlings is a little foolish. What better way if you are a thief intending to get yourself a nice group than to answer an add for a hatchling.#

i agree with claire and darren, your home is your home, i would not want sticky fingers nr my hatchlings etc(if i had any lol), but saying this i have met a couple of breeders who are very very nice and trust worthy and let people(buyers into their homes), but this is just an example, only a week ago i went back to a breeders home to buy more torts from her, and the story she told me was horrific,,,, she had a woman come view a couple of hatchlings she was selling, and the lady asked her if she could take them outside to the car to show her disabled daughter them, so as you do, she toddled off with the expected buyer, to find she's way way in front jumping in the car with 2 hatchlings and the sound of screeching wheels,,,,

easily done,,,, its not the fact the breeder lost out on money as i can assure you she is a lovely caring lady, and a superb breeder, its the fact where these poor torts will end up!!!!!!!!! im not disputing the debate what has been going on above^^^^ this is just an example of how easy theft can be if a so called buyer enters a breeders home.

piglet · 14-07-2006, 10:16 AM

I have been kindly asked not to add my original post to this thread as it might offend i refuse to edit what i wanted to tell you all as this would not be the truth but the truth can easily become distorted and used as a weapon .
But Lucy i must say enjoy your new charges your extremely lucky as a tortoise pet owner to be able to take on such a precious conservation sensitive species and i hope in the future when they are older you will look to the real conservation side of klienmanns tortoise husbandry as its vital all these Egyptian tortoises are part of a breeding programme and not kept solely as pet animals and it’s the advise from people on forums like this where you will get the help you need help no dealer can point you in the direction off .
Darren

lucy1234 · 14-07-2006, 10:47 AM

I visited dean again this morning to pick up some bits for my tortoise table he said that he did import once when he started off 4 years ago but know only buys UK c/b babies from breeders now.So i guess the breeders are to blam as they know dean and have done for some years now.I only find him to be a nice man only and must disagree with what many of you are saying infact we did not pay for half the items we collected today he gave them to us free. So if he is out for money why would he give us well over £30 worth of equipment free.I can not understand your reactions, It seems like the breeder and dealer relationship is a very close thing besides the license and insurance thing whats the difference. I asked dean if he imported tortoises and he told me only once and showed me the paperwork for the importation. I find him ok and will not say a thing against him. He also had another person there buying some equipment and 2 tortoise when i was there this morning and they also said that they had been having reptiles from dean for over 2 years and never had an imported animal from him and all where very healthy. I think some people may be a bit put out by him selling tortoises that are from breeders he told me just to ignore forums as they pull you in and twist facts with lies, so sorry but i do not wish to discuss dean anymore as i will not listen to people that have not been to meet him and seen his family,He has 2 small children and all i can see is that he is trying to provide for them. He live's in a small house with just 2 rooms and a kitchen one of the 2 rooms is where the animals are if he was making lot's of money from selling reptiles then i don't think he would live in such a small house. i came here for advice not to listen to people slag down a man they have not met. Please stick to the help i require and asked for not that i require much as i have all the information given to me from dean he supplied about 10 care and information sheets for me with a free book on tortoises and how to keep them.

imported_Lowe · 14-07-2006, 12:43 PM

Well, lets leave this here for now. We could discuss this for a long time and we'd still have people sitting in one camp or the other.

If you have problems with your Egyptians Lucy, feel free to ask away. But please don't bring Dean or associates into it since as you've seen - he's rubbed rather a lot of people up the wrong way in the past.

13-07-2006, 12:56 PM	#31
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Just wondering if you got care sheets with your egyptians, as they are not the easiest of tortoises to keep? Most dealer dont have the welfare of the tortoise in mind, just the profits. This is why you got such a reaction to DC. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

13-07-2006, 01:47 PM	#33
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Hmm I phoned Deans shop in Canterbury kent almost 2 years ago in my quest for a tortoise or two and he is not a nice person. I was looking to buy some Hermanns and he gave advice on how to keep etc. I booked an appointment to see the torts, but I cancelled as I found a breeder. He wasnt polite and he wasnt amused and that is to put it lightly. In the end the only thing i did wrong was to ask to visit his shop and then change my mind. At least I phoned. That mail doesnt sound like Darren, very unkind ( and untrue) thing to say about someone who is extremely helpful when it comes to torts. Ive seen Dean turn on people on other forums and he is vermin. Anyway, you are very lucky to have a pair of egyptians. Hope you enjoy them! Id stay clear of Dean in future but of course it is up to you. That doesnt mean the tortoises you got arent healthy and it doesnt mean you didnt get them for an extremely good price bearing in mind they are extremely rare, highly sought after and so very precious. Stick around here if you can, we'll all love to hear how they are getting on and if you become sucessful in breeding, i wanna be the first to place my order! I know the TT have kept/keep and breed egyptians so if you need any advice im sure they will be happy to help with any questions you may have. __________________

14-07-2006, 07:22 AM	#36
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	I personally think any breeder who allows people to see their entire collection of tortoises to sell just one or two hatchlings is a little foolish. What better way if you are a thief intending to get yourself a nice group than to answer an add for a hatchling. The breeder I got mine from did allow me to her home, but not before meeting me at the train station. Its ok for a registered pet shop as insurance would cover it, but for most breeders they are much loved pets that are completely priceless. Dean is about making money and this seperates him from most breeders. This would be my reservation with selling babies and why my husband and I have decided not to sell. Is it worth losing dozens of tortoises in some cases for just 100 quid ? We have made the decision that it isnt which is why we will endeavour to rehome any offspring once our garden is full! It certainly isnt a reason to doubt a breeders integrity. __________________

14-07-2006, 10:16 AM	#38
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	I have been kindly asked not to add my original post to this thread as it might offend i refuse to edit what i wanted to tell you all as this would not be the truth but the truth can easily become distorted and used as a weapon . But Lucy i must say enjoy your new charges your extremely lucky as a tortoise pet owner to be able to take on such a precious conservation sensitive species and i hope in the future when they are older you will look to the real conservation side of klienmanns tortoise husbandry as its vital all these Egyptian tortoises are part of a breeding programme and not kept solely as pet animals and it’s the advise from people on forums like this where you will get the help you need help no dealer can point you in the direction off . Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

13-07-2006, 11:59 PM	#34
lucy1234 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20	Hi i am total blown away by the reaction i have recieved by a few comments i have spoken to dean today and he said people don't like him as they don't like him selling tortoises that are from other breeders. I find him to be very helpfull we had a long phone call and he has even sent me some links for extra care sheets and advice that i have looked through and found very helpfull. I am still amaized at the email above that he sent as this seems a little harsh towards darren but i did contact darren when looking for tortoises and he did not even want me to go to his home to view the tortoises where as dean was very open and welcomed me. Infact quiet a few people i contacted wanted to either meet me in a place or deliver them i wanted to meet dean first and to meet the breeders as well. So sorry to dissagree with many of you but i found dean nothing but helpfull and open he even showed me his own collection of tortoises. I don't think he sells alot of tortoises compaired to some breeders i spoke to and emailed infact i think the breeders i spoke to came across more shaddy as if they had something to hide. I have reciebved some nice emails from this site and will reply to the nice ones but sorry to upset anyone but i will not agree that dean is a nasty person after my hour long chat today and my 2 hour visit to his home when i collected the animals. Again sorry to upset anyone.

14-07-2006, 12:16 AM	#35
tgidarren Junior Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 33	[quote="lucy1234"]i did contact darren when looking for tortoises and he did not even want me to go to his home to view the tortoises quote] Hi Lucy, The thing is, it is my home and not a centre that supplies tortoises. Dean sells so many tortoises from home his premises is registered with Canterbury City Council as a pet shop. The thing that grates on most small breeders is that for a long time Dean imported tortoises. It has nothing to do with the fact he sells other people's tortoises and he is very aware of this. Dean can be very economical with the truth. Anyway my reason for replying is that I'd like my tortoises to remain with me. The more people who call here, the more people who know about them and the greater chance of me waking up one morning and them not being there. That is why I do not want people I don't know calling on me. If I meet someone and I think they're o.k then I invite them here. Dealers make an awful lot of money (especially when they import cheap tortoises) and it is financially viable for them to pay & install surveillance systems, for the rest of us it isn't viable. Sincerely good luck with your tortoises. Have you any photos? TgiDarren

14-07-2006, 09:47 AM	#37
shootinglou79 Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,743	(darren=) The thing is, it is my home and not a centre that supplies tortoises. Dean sells so many tortoises from home his premises is registered with Canterbury City Council as a pet shop. [quote="clairekentuk"]I personally think any breeder who allows people to see their entire collection of tortoises to sell just one or two hatchlings is a little foolish. What better way if you are a thief intending to get yourself a nice group than to answer an add for a hatchling.# i agree with claire and darren, your home is your home, i would not want sticky fingers nr my hatchlings etc(if i had any lol), but saying this i have met a couple of breeders who are very very nice and trust worthy and let people(buyers into their homes), but this is just an example, only a week ago i went back to a breeders home to buy more torts from her, and the story she told me was horrific,,,, she had a woman come view a couple of hatchlings she was selling, and the lady asked her if she could take them outside to the car to show her disabled daughter them, so as you do, she toddled off with the expected buyer, to find she's way way in front jumping in the car with 2 hatchlings and the sound of screeching wheels,,,, easily done,,,, its not the fact the breeder lost out on money as i can assure you she is a lovely caring lady, and a superb breeder, its the fact where these poor torts will end up!!!!!!!!! im not disputing the debate what has been going on above^^^^ this is just an example of how easy theft can be if a so called buyer enters a breeders home.

14-07-2006, 10:47 AM	#39
lucy1234 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20	I visited dean again this morning to pick up some bits for my tortoise table he said that he did import once when he started off 4 years ago but know only buys UK c/b babies from breeders now.So i guess the breeders are to blam as they know dean and have done for some years now.I only find him to be a nice man only and must disagree with what many of you are saying infact we did not pay for half the items we collected today he gave them to us free. So if he is out for money why would he give us well over £30 worth of equipment free.I can not understand your reactions, It seems like the breeder and dealer relationship is a very close thing besides the license and insurance thing whats the difference. I asked dean if he imported tortoises and he told me only once and showed me the paperwork for the importation. I find him ok and will not say a thing against him. He also had another person there buying some equipment and 2 tortoise when i was there this morning and they also said that they had been having reptiles from dean for over 2 years and never had an imported animal from him and all where very healthy. I think some people may be a bit put out by him selling tortoises that are from breeders he told me just to ignore forums as they pull you in and twist facts with lies, so sorry but i do not wish to discuss dean anymore as i will not listen to people that have not been to meet him and seen his family,He has 2 small children and all i can see is that he is trying to provide for them. He live's in a small house with just 2 rooms and a kitchen one of the 2 rooms is where the animals are if he was making lot's of money from selling reptiles then i don't think he would live in such a small house. i came here for advice not to listen to people slag down a man they have not met. Please stick to the help i require and asked for not that i require much as i have all the information given to me from dean he supplied about 10 care and information sheets for me with a free book on tortoises and how to keep them.

14-07-2006, 12:43 PM	#40
imported_Lowe Member Hatchling Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Walsall Posts: 652	Well, lets leave this here for now. We could discuss this for a long time and we'd still have people sitting in one camp or the other. If you have problems with your Egyptians Lucy, feel free to ask away. But please don't bring Dean or associates into it since as you've seen - he's rubbed rather a lot of people up the wrong way in the past.

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