hibernation benefits

[tortoiseguy]

[quote="EJ"]This is not quite true. As I mentioned with the species above. Some do hibernate and some do not. Of course those that do not do tend to be larger but this is totally natural. It all depends on the available environmental conditions.


If the tortoise has ideal environmental conditions, and they are a hibernating species, they would hibernate. As all good tortoise keepers should have ideal conditions surely hibernation is natural and the best thing for the tortoise

[terrypin]

hi my tgg and hermanni live outside all year with greenhouse access and as the daytime reduces towards winter they wind down naturally i have tried too extend the season slightly with heatlamps in the past so they could digest any food left in them but they tend too dig down in the greenhouses and i have too dig them up and box them.my ibera just stays in his hutch under the hemp all winter and i check him from time to time.i really dont think its down to temperature Ed and other factors need to be considered including the reduction in daylight hours.
terry
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[EJ]

There is 'ideal' as what you the tortoise keeper thinks is ideal and there is ideal for survival. That would mean maintaining environmental conditions that is required for normal metabolic function.

When those conditions drop below the ideal the tortoise ceases to function properly. Some animals have adapted a defense to the poor conditions and that is called hibernation.





[quote="tortoiseguy"]

Originally Posted by EJ

This is not quite true. As I mentioned with the species above. Some do hibernate and some do not. Of course those that do not do tend to be larger but this is totally natural. It all depends on the available environmental conditions.


If the tortoise has ideal environmental conditions, and they are a hibernating species, they would hibernate. As all good tortoise keepers should have ideal conditions surely hibernation is natural and the best thing for the tortoise

[EJ]

Light probably plays a role but as a reptile it would have to be temperature that is a primary factor. After all, it is temperature that gets the blood flowing and makes everything else work.

Originally Posted by terrypin

hi my tgg and hermanni live outside all year with greenhouse access and as the daytime reduces towards winter they wind down naturally i have tried too extend the season slightly with heatlamps in the past so they could digest any food left in them but they tend too dig down in the greenhouses and i have too dig them up and box them.my ibera just stays in his hutch under the hemp all winter and i check him from time to time.i really dont think its down to temperature Ed and other factors need to be considered including the reduction in daylight hours.
terry
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[terrypin]

hi tortoises have survived and adapted to conditions outside of its ideal environment because the natural thing for a species is too try and extend its range too survive as Darwins theory proved those whoo adapt are successful and that is why so many types of tortoise are found in temperate climates these sub speciea have developed over many generations and if they never had this instinct to hibernate they would die out very quickly .should we as responsible keepers stop this natural behaviour and over several generations create an animal that could never survive in its natural range.

terry

[piglet]

Edd I would like to add that all tortoises whether hibernating species or not go through environmental condition changes in there wild state ,
A period of quite is seen in nearly if not all species , this must play a crucial part in the development of there growth and food intake surely and replicating it in captivity is in my opinion the right way to go where it acn be put in place.
Examples are estivation in climates that prevent hibernation, many North Africans estivate in really hot weather, Galapagus lie up in muddy pools for months at a time, some leopards in the south Africa where the temps can be rather cold go through a hiberantion period

Just my opinion

D

[EJ]

That's exactly my point. Their behavior is based on environmental conditions. Not because they choose to but because they have to in order to survive. I don't know of anyone that has either the time or patience to prove either point one way or the other.

I look at it as another one of those common sense kind of things. If a good environment is provided will the animal be inclined to hibernate... not in my experience. The big question is there any physical benefit... I haven't found any objective studies to say there is. So far all there seems to be is opinion. There's the opinion that if you maintain a proper environment the tortoise does not estivate or hibernate. It doesn't make sense that it is necessary because they do it in the wild therefore we should force bad conditions on them because that is what they experience in the wild. It seems that the tortoise keeper, again, knows what's good for the animal.



Terry, isn't that what you're doing with keeping Leopards in the UK but that's another topic.

[tortoiseguy]

I am not going to spend any more time replying to Ed or EJ some people could argue the benefits of drinking bleach (sarcasm) Lets just realise that some people have no idea, or rather the wrong idea, and fill their time argueing for the point of it. My only worry is how many people get poor information from what is at all other times a very informative and reliable site

[chelonaki]

I agree with tortoiseguy. When we talk about how to decide about the lives of living beings we ought to be more careful: some people here, just because something makes sense to them from some very limited point of view, they adopt practices and pass them on too that are far from responsible. I only started learning on tortoises a month ago, but this does not stop me from being able to see that the arguments writen above are of a low level and quite irresponsible too. I will not hide that I was shocked to read " It gives you a break on taking care of them.

It can serve as a biological que for breeding.

That's about the extent of the benefits. " I really was. I will not argur either for or agains hibernation. I will only add that if I were to argue for it, I would first say that not hibernating shortens the lives or tortoises considerably, and that is something I have read from very responsible sources. If one is really interested in knowing why this happens, one can easily google or read from sites that are being sited every day here and find that out.

[terrypin]

hi Ed i have too agree the UK is not the best place to keep leopard tortoises but since they are here and cant go back all i can do is give them as good a life as possible even in summer the heat lamps go on at 4.30 am then they are let out at 7.30am warmed up and ready too go they have the option to sunbathe on the conrete area it is about 20foot x 20 foot or continue up into the weedy slopes all this is south faceing and well drained this area is a half circle about 70 x 80foot there is pamapas for cover and hibiscus and grasses.there is a lot of water bowls around and in hot summers we use the sprinkler they love this between 4.30 and 5 pm they are collected and restricted too the conrete with a small area of grass for a munch they will normally go in the shed within a couple of hours and its closed up about 9pm. even in winter they will come out most days as its not normally so harsh in the channel islands.

my apologies for going off thread but i felt i had to defend my self.
terry