Thread to discuss THE hibernating issue

[skildpadde]

[QUOTE=pagan queen;415561]Thanks Mette, you have some very interesting views and worth considering. How long do you hibernate for and what method do you use?

Hi
This is the first year I'll be hibernating them. Their previous owner used to hibernate them in his garage. He always put them there the last weekend in October when the clocks go back, and took them out again late March/early April. He bred them and they are 15 and 16 years old, so it's been working well so far
I do not have a suitable outbuilding that I can guarantee is frost free and my loft is too warm. So I'll be using the fridge method. I'm very inspired by reading various danish websites from tort keepers who keep their torts permanently outside without artificial heating, but with the aid of coldframes/greenhouses.
I intend to move the torts to the fridge when the temperature in their shelter falls to single digits at night. So far the coldest it has been in my coldframe at night this year has been 12 C. (but in the sunny weather 2 days ago it rose to 41 C in the day!)
I intend to stop hibernation when the temp outside in the spring has risen to 13 C in the shade and the forecast is for stable sunny weather for a few days. So lenghth of hibernation will depend on the weather.

If you could provide an area as large as your garden, would you still Hibernate?

Interesting question I had not thought about it before. On balance I think yes. Unless I could magic up mediterranean summer weather indoors

Mette

[TortBabe]

Great thread! Although I am keeking myself at the thought of hibernation, I do agree with the points Kenneth has made about unnatural growth. I have thought about this for ages, and it is just my thought that we should mirror what they do in the wild. I am really gonna miss my little Willow when he goes in the fridge, but I'm confident that with the guidance of those that know on this forum, we will both come out better for it at the other end.

[DoodleBopper]

I hibernate mine (when they are healthy) because it is their natural behaviour, in the wild they hibernate and so i do not think it is fair to stop them doing something that they should do, especially as one of mine is from Slovenia and so would have probably hibernated until being brought to the UK.

I also like to hibernate simply because of the lack of food in the winter. I am useless at growing my own weeds, detest going out in the cold looking for them in the snow, and I feel really mean feeding them on lettuce. My 4 year old absolutley hates his table, he is always trying to climb out, and they do not look right being indoors. I hibernate them so that they can skip the horrid part of the year and get to being outside sooner!!

[skildpadde]

Originally Posted by Kenneth

Damn, your English is good
I totally agree on everything you said in the above.

Thank you. I've lived in the uk for over 20 years, so have gone a bit native
Mette

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Kenneth

- Too dry environment.
The connective tissue between carapax plates on juvenile torts is very vulnerable. One should provide a thick layer of moist substrate for the torts to dig / sleep in. The moist substrate humidifies the carapax, particularly the connective tissue. This will prefent malformations of the shell.

I wouldn't disagree with that. However, I have not been convinced that putting your tortoise in a polystyrene box inside another box .. even with air holes, in a fridge will provide the humidity that they get from hibernating dug down in moist soil.

It has been said that in the wild they may 'come out' of hibernation for a few hours on a warmer day and go back down again. They wouldn't do that in a fridge so I just don't get that it compares to the wild. Anyone wanting to replicate the wild (not quite possible in captivity in the UK) should at least be allowing them to move around as necessary in a suitable substrate. Some people do do this

[yuna1971]

I thought they did have fridges in the wild......(smile)
Lined up...bit like Glastonbury Portaloo's.... They just totter on in...put the engaged sign up for 3months or so, then totter on out.

[yuna1971]

Sorry...i will step out of this as I cant comment on hibernation or fridge methods. xx Over to you.. xx
((I couldnt resist though...))

[kreacher]

I can see the points being made are relevant however it will not change my mind that it is necessary...my local reptile shop who are very good friends breed tortoises on a yearly basis for the last ten years...they do not hibernate any of their med species so I cannot aggree that it affects the fertility of these animals...they have 14 breeding pairs of meds and never fail to have healthy hatchlings so to me that does not add up...there diet, as with kreachers, is controlled all year so they do not over eat and grow to quickly...a tortoise in the wild will not Consciously think I need to hibernate because I need to stop growing and help my fertility system! They hibernate because it is cold and if they don't they will die! If it is not cold they do not hibernate which is proof in itself that they only do it purely to try and survive cold weather...without the cold weather it is not necessary for them to do it therefore they don't!

[swad1000]

Using a fridge to hibernate is just the same as using a mercury vapour bulb to provide heat and uv. It recreate a similar environment to what would be found in the wild. But I don't see many finding using artificial lights odd, and achieving good humidity in the fridge is not difficult certainly far easier than getting it in an open table with artificial heating.

[skildpadde]

Originally Posted by yuna1971

I thought they did have fridges in the wild......(smile)
Lined up...bit like Glastonbury Portaloo's.... They just totter on in...put the engaged sign up for 3months or so, then totter on out.

No they haven't got fridges in the wild.... just as there are no Megarays, solarglos, ceramic heaters or habistat thermostats in the wild

Mette