Defra

[NATURALIS]

After looking on rfuk today and reading a thread about micro chipping hatchlings from day one i thought i would ring DEFRA to find out the facts , i was told that yes they were thinging about chipping hatchlings but its not been approved yet , the idea is that the chip is very small ( used for bee's ) and could be inserted on day old hatchlings so that there history could be traced from day one , there would be no need then to have there a10's changed so the one they get on day one stays with them for life , this is however only one idea put forward, DEFRA tell me they will try to get something put up on there website maybe next week about it.

[Kirkie]

I asked the same question on the tortoise trust forum last week

"I recently attended a presentation by a memberof the Wildlife Licensing and Registration Service, Bristol. The presentation was on article 10s TSC and SSC but one of the current projects mentioned was the introduction of a micro microchip for hatchling tortoises. This would enable a tortoise to be identified as a particular specimen from birth doing away with the need for single transaction certificates for tortoises under 10cm. I've seen reference to the "tortoise marking project" in sets of animal health minutes published on their website. Thisi is a UK led initiative but I asked the question, and it would become an EU level directive if trials are sucessful possibly within the next two years. I understand that two chips are currently being investigated. I got a feeling of mixed reaction from the room, mainly the idea of chipping such a small animal. Personally I feel it is a positive step and may clear up the murky world of single transaction certificates and hopefully provide a history of a tortoise back to birth place and more importantly, date."

I know were not post links to other sites so anyone interested in the responses will have to go and have a look. Its in genreal tortoise topics, microchipping of hatchlings- thoughts?

Would have bern quicker to post the link...

[Kirkie]

Just went and read your post RFM. The use of micro dots is an interesting development. Back end of last year they were looking at two insertable chips similar to the adult chip but smaller obviously.

[Kirkie]

By the way, as this is proposed to replace the single transaction certificate I would'nt envisage it as having to be in place from birth but prior to sale. Could be that, as is often the case in the UK, tortoises are grown on to ensure they are healthy before the breeder offers them for sale which would make them a more suitable size for chip placement either internally or externally on the carapace or plastron somewhere.

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by Kirkie

Just went and read your post RFM. The use of micro dots is an interesting development. Back end of last year they were looking at two insertable chips similar to the adult chip but smaller obviously.

On the first call today they where talking about micro dots as is used for bee's i believe ,on my second call from DEFRA today they were talking about it being injected ?, so who knows what will happen, there will still be lots of unchipped tortoise because what about the breeders that keep there hatchlings and deside to sell them at a later point , on the other side of the coin i think it would stop a lot of dodgy dealings, which is a good thing.

[Kirkie]

Its a subject I'll be following wirh interest. The possible downside is that the additional costs will encourage a move towards the importation of non protected species such as the Horsfield which is offered little or no realistic protectipn under CITES. There is a huge price war going on between 3 tortoise producing countries at the moment with our old friends the Slovenians trailling in a distant third. I wouldnt be at all suprised if there was a shift toward non CITES species if this comes to pass but it should help no end in protecting CITES listed animals I feel.

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by Kirkie

Its a subject I'll be following wirh interest. The possible downside is that the additional costs will encourage a move towards the importation of non protected species such as the Horsfield which is offered little or no realistic protectipn under CITES. There is a huge price war going on between 3 tortoise producing countries at the moment with our old friends the Slovenians trailling in a distant third. I wouldnt be at all suprised if there was a shift toward non CITES species if this comes to pass but it should help no end in protecting CITES listed animals I feel.

I have mixed feelings , i was told these chips are cheaper than the chips used now and also there would be a saving because they would only need the one a10. If they use the chip they are on about there £1.20 ea

[Kirkie]

I'll avoid the obvious " cheap as chips" reference but there would be vetinary fee's to consider with an implanted chip. Bulk producers abroad could get away with a bulk fee perhaps but UK breeders producing a few hatchlings a year? Its going to be a further overhead that will have to be covered in the sale price. Which leads us all the way back to cheap imports...

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by Kirkie

I'll avoid the obvious " cheap as chips" reference but there would be vetinary fee's to consider with an implanted chip. Bulk producers abroad could get away with a bulk fee perhaps but UK breeders producing a few hatchlings a year? Its going to be a further overhead that will have to be covered in the sale price. Which leads us all the way back to cheap imports...

Yes i see where your coming from , its always the small guy that getting hit in the pocket , maybe your right that people will breed more un licenced tortoise such as the Red foot and horsefield in the future but that dosn't seem right for all the med breeders.

[Alan1]

how many chips will a tort need in their lifetime though. the smaller the chip the easier it is to 'fry' or to simply pack in. just like memory chips you can fry one just by touching it. a bee won't be living 70 years like a tort. good idea in theory but what happens when it packs in, which it will