Newly Acquired Tortoises Need Help

[Sparky86]

Hello, I'm looking for some advice.

My family had a tortoise many many years ago ... way before I was born lol!! And everything has changed from when they kept a tortoise they had one in the 70's when everybody had Tortoises and it was a case of throw them some lettuce and tomato and they look after themselves. I myself have never had a tortoise.

Anyway I digress..

This week I was given two Hermann tortoises by a neighbour, They were given to me as they were relocating and downsizing their house but going off the yellow paperwork that came with them one is male and 8 years old and the other is female and 5 years old. The male is about 12cm in length and the female is slightly under 10cm, I have been led to believe by a friend that the yellow paperwork is now invalid for the male and I therefore need to have him micro-chipped and apply for new paperwork.

They came housed in a large Vivarium that has a UV light and a Heat Lamp which is currently broken, however, when I removed the bulb last night to check what type of bulb I need to purchase as a replacement they have not a used heat bulb its a normal 100W spotlight bulb. They are bedded down on what I can only describe as cardboard flakes.

I have read conflicting stories about the use of vivarium's for tortoises, as we are having a lot of work done on our house I have planed to keep them within the vivarium until the work is complete (will take approximately 8 weeks) but I then plan to transfer them into my own version of a tortoise box. I have a large Guinea pig/rabbit hutch the type with a deep plastic tray as the base and a removable wire mesh box lid. I plan to use this as the tortoise box leaving the lid on as I have cats but it means there will be plenty of air circulation, I plan to have a basking corner and cool area/shelter with a UV light attached to the top of the "cage". I also plan to build them a run in the garden come summer time and let them spend the days out.

I fed them yesterday Dandelion leaves, a small amount of watercress and a bit of broccoli. I have given them a cuttlefish and I am just awaiting a delivery of calcium powder to sprinkle over their food, I have also ordered a mixture of fast growing grow your own food for them and will begin feeding them more of what they should be on and slowly wean them off their old diet that was mostly fruit and lettuce with a few dandelion leaves, and get them onto a healthier diet. Unfortunately we are still getting heavy frosts at the moment and I am struggling to recognise some of the weeds they can eat apart from dandelion leaves.

I'm concerned that the female hasn't touched any food, The male has eaten a small amount on Tuesday but hasn't eaten since. I tried bathing them last night but neither have passed anything nor eaten since. They don't do much when in the vivarium (I presume this is because there is no basking lamp) but when I let them out and pen them an area off in the living room then they are very active and walk around.

I'm not sure how long the heat lamp has been broken for, it certainly didn't work when they came to me and my house is colder than my neighbours so I really need to get the heat sorted, I'm also not sure how old the UV lamp is... I know as I have birds that use UV lights the bulbs have a 12 month working life when used so I plan to purchase a new bulb this weekend.

If anybody can help with the following I would be very grateful

Should I be worried about the Females lack of appetite? Also the lack of poop or pee?

Will a normal light-bulb suffice for a heat lamp or should I get an actual heat bulb.

Is there anything else that I should be addressing.

I plan to have them both micro-chipped anyway but how do I go about applying for new yellow documents.

Thanks in advance for replies

[Emilyjayne2012]

Hi There

Firstly I wouldnt be worried about your news torts lack of appetite, when I first brought mine home they didnt eat for a few days. This is part of the settling in process. As they are active when you get them our I wouldnt worry. Try squeezing cucumber juice over their food as I have read that helps get them eating. But for now I wouldnt worry too much and same goes for them passing and urates etc. Just keep bathing them regually.
I do think some people use normal light bulbs but I have only ever used a heat bulb brought from a pet shop. You need to get a new heat bulb asap.
They will be ok kept in the viv until you can get a permanant house made for them. You will need to change the substrate, the best thing to use is either steralised top soil or 'tortoise life' which is what I use.
Food wise I wouldnt recomend feeding them broccoli, a lot of people use the pre-packed bags of salad at the minute as theres not many weeds about. I use 'florette crispy salad' and also water cress, lambs lettuce, rocket and romanie lettuce until there are more weeds about. The 'Tortoise table' website is really good for finding out what are the best things to feed them.
You need to put nutrobal on their food, I use it 3 times a week and calcium the other days. I also use pellets a few times a week while I am not feeding weeds.
It might be an idea to put some photos up here of the underneath of the tortoises so people can check for you that they are defintely a male and a female.
I dont know much about documents but hopefully someone would be along soon who can help with that.

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Sparky86

Hello, I'm looking for some advice.

My family had a tortoise many many years ago ... way before I was born lol!! And everything has changed from when they kept a tortoise they had one in the 70's when everybody had Tortoises and it was a case of throw them some lettuce and tomato and they look after themselves. I myself have never had a tortoise.

Anyway I digress..

This week I was given two Hermann tortoises by a neighbour, They were given to me as they were relocating and downsizing their house but going off the yellow paperwork that came with them one is male and 8 years old and the other is female and 5 years old. The male is about 12cm in length and the female is slightly under 10cm, I have been led to believe by a friend that the yellow paperwork is now invalid for the male and I therefore need to have him micro-chipped and apply for new paperwork.

They came housed in a large Vivarium that has a UV light and a Heat Lamp which is currently broken, however, when I removed the bulb last night to check what type of bulb I need to purchase as a replacement they have not a used heat bulb its a normal 100W spotlight bulb. They are bedded down on what I can only describe as cardboard flakes.

I have read conflicting stories about the use of vivarium's for tortoises, as we are having a lot of work done on our house I have planed to keep them within the vivarium until the work is complete (will take approximately 8 weeks) but I then plan to transfer them into my own version of a tortoise box. I have a large Guinea pig/rabbit hutch the type with a deep plastic tray as the base and a removable wire mesh box lid. I plan to use this as the tortoise box leaving the lid on as I have cats but it means there will be plenty of air circulation, I plan to have a basking corner and cool area/shelter with a UV light attached to the top of the "cage". I also plan to build them a run in the garden come summer time and let them spend the days out.

I fed them yesterday Dandelion leaves, a small amount of watercress and a bit of broccoli. I have given them a cuttlefish and I am just awaiting a delivery of calcium powder to sprinkle over their food, I have also ordered a mixture of fast growing grow your own food for them and will begin feeding them more of what they should be on and slowly wean them off their old diet that was mostly fruit and lettuce with a few dandelion leaves, and get them onto a healthier diet. Unfortunately we are still getting heavy frosts at the moment and I am struggling to recognise some of the weeds they can eat apart from dandelion leaves.

I'm concerned that the female hasn't touched any food, The male has eaten a small amount on Tuesday but hasn't eaten since. I tried bathing them last night but neither have passed anything nor eaten since. They don't do much when in the vivarium (I presume this is because there is no basking lamp) but when I let them out and pen them an area off in the living room then they are very active and walk around.

I'm not sure how long the heat lamp has been broken for, it certainly didn't work when they came to me and my house is colder than my neighbours so I really need to get the heat sorted, I'm also not sure how old the UV lamp is... I know as I have birds that use UV lights the bulbs have a 12 month working life when used so I plan to purchase a new bulb this weekend.

If anybody can help with the following I would be very grateful

Should I be worried about the Females lack of appetite? Also the lack of poop or pee?

Will a normal light-bulb suffice for a heat lamp or should I get an actual heat bulb.

Is there anything else that I should be addressing.

I plan to have them both micro-chipped anyway but how do I go about applying for new yellow documents.

Thanks in advance for replies

Getting a heat sorce is very important, even if its only a desk lamp or two, tortoises need to be warm before they will do anything. They need heat to to eat, bask and thrive. They will need UV in the next few weeks.
Eating is not the important thing at the moment, as they can go weeks without food, but not water and heat. So keep bathing them, and keep them warm. Once they get used to their new set up, you will see changes in their behaviour.
Paper work can wait until you have sorted out their husbandry and set up:0)

[EJ]

In the UK a viv is your best option for any tortoise enclosure unless you are blessed enough to provide a warm room(temps > 30C). It is much easier and cheaper to provide the proper temperatures. How big is the viv? Is the heat source fixture broken or does it just need a new bulb? If it just needs a bulb a 100w normal flood lamp should be good enough in an enclosed viv. You might look into a ceramic heater to get the night time temperatures up.

Don't be affraid to offer pellets such as Mazuri or NutraZu. These provide all the nutrition your tortoise needs. The greens are a good supplement but try to go with the dark leafy greens if anything.

There is a good book that was written to answer all your basic questions and then some...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russian-Tort.../dp/0793828821

Although the title is Russian Tortoises it does cover all Testudo including Hermann Tortoises.

Note... you can get a signed copy for £12 + shipping via royal mail in the UK by emailing my friend at tortoisepoo@yahoo.co.uk

Originally Posted by Sparky86

Hello, I'm looking for some advice.

This week I was given two Hermann tortoises by a neighbour,...

[Suze65]

I think all the above have pretty much said it all, and I would agree with. As far as substrate is concerned you can also use coco coir, from pets at home, don't give broccoli,I use florette mix lettuce and any weeds you can get, rocket , kale once or twice a week and I would not give water cress, I agree about them not eating much, torts often do this when they are moved to a new environment, they need time to settle. And a heat lamp ASAP, or they won't move. Best place to get uv lights etc is Surrey pet supplies , they are about the cheapest on line. And also you could try adding Pre Alpin to their food, from Tortoiselady.co .uk

[Sparky86]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for the advice.

My mum and dad went to the pet shop yesterday unfortunately although they sold tortoise pellets they didn't have heat and UV bulbs so dads taking me shopping tomorrow to a reptile shop so I will purchase a new UV bulb and Heat bulb from there.

They got the pellets... tetra tortoise pellets I gave them some last night not sure whether they touched them though its hard to tell as they went paddling through it and spread it out all over the place.

In the meantime I have put a standard spotlight bulb in the heat lamp. Unfortunately I didn't have any 100W bulbs so I have had to put a 60W bulb in (the highest I had) but what I have also done is wedged the glass doors open slightly at the cooler side of the Vivarium so that more air can circulate there are three vents already in the back of the vivarium one on the "hot" side two in the cool side, I also have a marble cooling plate that my Chinchilla doesn't use so I have placed that into the cool side of the Vivarium and covered it over in the bedding.

When I put them back in the difference was immense, they wandered round the vivarium more going from warm to cool and the smaller one ate after basking

As far as substrate is concerned you can also use coco coir, from pets at home

I went on the pets at home website yesterday as we don't have one close by and its on offer at 2 for £5 so I have a stack ordered it will be here today so I can clean them out tonight and put them onto this bedding thank you for the suggestion

here are the photos of their underside

This is the bigger one I have been told is Male, he has a red/pink discolouring on the underside of his shell and the underside shell is concave I don't know if that makes a difference (I have a vague memory being told in biology class one day that helps to sex them??)



Here is the smaller one, the underside of the shell is completely flat, however the top of the shell is very bumpy.

[Marcusanthony24]

Originally Posted by EJ

In the UK a viv is your best option for any tortoise enclosure unless you are blessed enough to provide a warm room(temps > 30C). It is much easier and cheaper to provide the proper temperatures. How big is the viv? Is the heat source fixture broken or does it just need a new bulb? If it just needs a bulb a 100w normal flood lamp should be good enough in an enclosed viv. You might look into a ceramic heater to get the night time temperatures up.

Don't be affraid to offer pellets such as Mazuri or NutraZu. These provide all the nutrition your tortoise needs. The greens are a good supplement but try to go with the dark leafy greens if anything.

There is a good book that was written to answer all your basic questions and then some...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russian-Tort.../dp/0793828821

Although the title is Russian Tortoises it does cover all Testudo including Hermann Tortoises.

Note... you can get a signed copy for £12 + shipping via royal mail in the UK by emailing my friend at tortoisepoo@yahoo.co.uk

Tortoises will become ill and stressed if kept in a viv, also dark greens tend to contain oxalic acid with the exception of kale which is ok in moderation. A tortoise table is best, as long as temps don't go much below 15 celsius in the room, there is a basking temp of 32-34 celsius and a cool end to thermoregulate. You will also need UVB lighting, calcium & vitamin supp's, try to avoid pellets also with the exception of agrobs as they tend to be high in protein.

[Suze65]

A lot of people on here use pellets , if only once or twice a week without any problems, particularly over the winter. Also 15 Celsius is a bit too low for most torts, 18 is better for night time temps.

[FLINTUS]

Originally Posted by mediterraneansuze

A lot of people on here use pellets , if only once or twice a week without any problems, particularly over the winter. Also 15 Celsius is a bit too low for most torts, 18 is better for night time temps.

They will not suffer from down to 15 though at night, presumably it would often drop down this low in the wild. My red foots are happy to be outside at above 15 and they are more tropical. Ed, although I do understand your point about higher temps, surely a decent heat lamp and maybe a second heat source such as a CHE will work enough to keep the temps up. I personally disagree with the whole pellet idea, I believe they are not usually needed but as Ed said if you are going to get some get a good one like Mazuri-I am not sure about tetra tortoise food, anyone know if it's good?

[EJ]

I guess I can deal with a little disagreement although I believe you are wrong concerning the use of a viv... a tortoise in a cool apartment in a table is more likely to become ill...

I believe you should do a little more research before offering misguided information.

Originally Posted by Marcusanthony24

Tortoises will become ill and stressed if kept in a viv, also dark greens tend to contain oxalic acid with the exception of kale which is ok in moderation. A tortoise table is best, as long as temps don't go much below 15 celsius in the room, there is a basking temp of 32-34 celsius and a cool end to thermoregulate. You will also need UVB lighting, calcium & vitamin supp's, try to avoid pellets also with the exception of agrobs as they tend to be high in protein.