Hibernation outside

[Cali]

Hello,

Earlier in the year people here kindly helped me to build an enclosure for my grandmas tortoise who I have inherited. She is doing well but has started to slow down for hibernation. In the past she has always been left to her own devices in the garden and has always done very well at hibernating (she has been an outdoor tortoise for 50+ years). She buried herself and granny would put some roofing felt over where she was. Now she no longer has the run of a whole (very sheltered) garden I'm worried that this won't be enough. I really have no clue what is best to do. She has been spending a lot of time in her box and I could fill that up with straw and let her hibernate in there but I was thinking that wouldn't be sheltered enough? We could pop her in the shed once she goes to sleep (or before)? Is there anything particular I should put her in or can I just move her box into the shed? Is straw the best thing to use? I am down in kent so winters are generally fairly mild.

I definitely need her to hibernate as I can't accommodate her awake very easily during the winter and anyway she is a very old lady and I prefer to keep her as close to the life she has been used to as possible. Any advice would be great.

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Cali

Hello,

Earlier in the year people here kindly helped me to build an enclosure for my grandmas tortoise who I have inherited. She is doing well but has started to slow down for hibernation. In the past she has always been left to her own devices in the garden and has always done very well at hibernating (she has been an outdoor tortoise for 50+ years). She buried herself and granny would put some roofing felt over where she was. Now she no longer has the run of a whole (very sheltered) garden I'm worried that this won't be enough. I really have no clue what is best to do. She has been spending a lot of time in her box and I could fill that up with straw and let her hibernate in there but I was thinking that wouldn't be sheltered enough? We could pop her in the shed once she goes to sleep (or before)? Is there anything particular I should put her in or can I just move her box into the shed? Is straw the best thing to use? I am down in kent so winters are generally fairly mild.

I definitely need her to hibernate as I can't accommodate her awake very easily during the winter and anyway she is a very old lady and I prefer to keep her as close to the life she has been used to as possible. Any advice would be great.

I took on a graeca graeca some years ago, that had hibernated outside for over 25yrs. It took around four years to change the habit.
For the first few years I used to bring her in at night, when there were threats of frosts (the biggest killer of tortoises) and put her out again the next day. When it was cold enough and I had wound her down I boxed her up. And kept the box in a cold place. But she didn't thrive, so I got a greenhouse got my husband to put electrics in, and when it came to hibernation time, I let her bury down in the GH soil. After that she thrived. And I now let all my tortoises do the same, and have done now for over 20yrs.
Unless your shed is well insulated, then temps in there would fluctuate too much. And frosts can get to her.
When I boxed up tortoises I used to use the garage attached to the house. As temps need to be around 5c to keep them in hibernation.
Also straw is not a good thing to put into the box. Shredded paper is far better, or newspaper.
If you look on www.thetortoisehouse.com you will find some great hibernation instructions:0)

[Cali]

She has thrived all her life hibernating outside. I know it isn't recommended for new tortoises these days, but it's what she's used to. Until this year she has never even had a box, leg alone been brought inside. I don't have the facilities to change that really. In an emergency I could give her a heated vivarium inside but it wouldn't be suitable long term. She is a very large tortoise and would hate to be in a small space. Would it be better to encourage her to dig in the same way she has for all these years?

[Pussygalore]

your tort will need to be able to dig down as deep as a couple of feet, be somewhere sheltered and somewhere not likely to get flooded or hold the water. To be honest a controled hibernation is the safest both in length and temp, with the weather this year your tort could be up and down for several weeks and its far to warm and early for it to go down now. I've always gone with the 20 weeks being the safe max so if you work it out from now untill next April/May when she may next appear you can see how long that is. Of course its up to you but you must realize the risks involved, my adults would never take to being fridged but were fine boxed, they had a big wooden box with lift up lid separated in the middle so one was each side, this was filled with their usual bedding. We insulated a corner of the shed at this house and the box was put in the insulated area with a removable wooden front, we waited untill a cold night was predicted and left the shed window and area front of so the temp inside the box dropped then closed everything up when it was cold enough. The torts were boxed either first thing in the morning before they woke or nightime when they were asleep, they didn't stir and stayed asleep. The shed had a heater on a thermostat in case the temps got to cold but the area and box stayed a constant 5c with no trouble. The insulated area only needed to be big enough for the hibernation box and was under the shelf in a corner which meant we already had two walls so only needed a side and front and we used cheap loft insulation and ply for the front and one side. The same could be done in a garage you have to insulate as any rise in temp can wake them and drops below 5c can harm. You say your tort would hate to be in a small space but with a proper wind down she will be asleep when boxed and won't know where she is and to be honest if you watch them they always choose a small tight spot to sleep in as thats where they feel secure, the box just needs to be big enough for her to turn and a good couple of feet in height so she can be buried.

[Cali]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

your tort will need to be able to dig down as deep as a couple of feet, be somewhere sheltered and somewhere not likely to get flooded or hold the water. To be honest a controled hibernation is the safest both in length and temp, with the weather this year your tort could be up and down for several weeks and its far to warm and early for it to go down now. I've always gone with the 20 weeks being the safe max so if you work it out from now untill next April/May when she may next appear you can see how long that is. Of course its up to you but you must realize the risks involved, my adults would never take to being fridged but were fine boxed, they had a big wooden box with lift up lid separated in the middle so one was each side, this was filled with their usual bedding. We insulated a corner of the shed at this house and the box was put in the insulated area with a removable wooden front, we waited untill a cold night was predicted and left the shed window and area front of so the temp inside the box dropped then closed everything up when it was cold enough. The torts were boxed either first thing in the morning before they woke or nightime when they were asleep, they didn't stir and stayed asleep. The shed had a heater on a thermostat in case the temps got to cold but the area and box stayed a constant 5c with no trouble. The insulated area only needed to be big enough for the hibernation box and was under the shelf in a corner which meant we already had two walls so only needed a side and front and we used cheap loft insulation and ply for the front and one side. The same could be done in a garage you have to insulate as any rise in temp can wake them and drops below 5c can harm. You say your tort would hate to be in a small space but with a proper wind down she will be asleep when boxed and won't know where she is and to be honest if you watch them they always choose a small tight spot to sleep in as thats where they feel secure, the box just needs to be big enough for her to turn and a good couple of feet in height so she can be buried.

Thank you, that's really useful. I meant I wouldn't want to try and set up a heated enclosure and keep her awake over winter as the space would be limited (someone suggested this was what I should do), I understand that she will be fine in a smallish hibernation box. I can easily make an insulated space in our shed to put her. When you say a cold night, how cold do you mean? And when do you think I should be thinking about doing it? She is definitely spending more time in her box but is still plodding around and eating on warm days. 20 weeks before April would be around mid November?

[Pussygalore]

the time sounds about right and by cold its usually below 5c which is your ideal hibernation temp, my adult spurs could go up to say 8c for short periods without waking but at 10c the tort could wake. Below 5c for long periods damage to the eyes can be done, you'll find though if you can insulate an area well enough and get it down to around 5c it should stay there, and once the tort is in there you only need to check once a week or so and then try to keep it short and when its cold so you don't let any heat in. I used a couple of digital thermometers with long probes so they can be in the box with the readings outside the insulated area, The box doesn't have to be wood but wood is best against rodents etc, a strong cardboard box inside a slightley larger one will work with a few holes in the top and either taped down or a weight on top just in case the tort does wake and try to get out. I also think a large coolbox would work if holes could be drilled into the top as they're insulated and strong, I always used some of the torts bedding as then it doesn't smell different and made sure the bedding was as cold as the area not freshly put in, the less to wake them the better. Mine were literally well buried in their bedding and there they stayed. As you need to get the area down to 5c you'll need to watch the forecast for a cold or even frosty night, with either the door or window open the temp in your area should be ready the next morning but get it covered before it warms up. Don't forget you'll need a heater on a thermostat in the shed but this doesn't need to be any powerfull just a small heater will do.

[Pussygalore]

the time sounds about right and by cold its usually below 5c which is your ideal hibernation temp, my adult spurs could go up to say 8c for short periods without waking but at 10c the tort could wake. Below 5c for long periods damage to the eyes can be done I know some sites say the temps can go down to 0c but to me thats pushing it, you'll find though if you can insulate an area well enough and get it down to around 5c it should stay there, and once the tort is in there you only need to check once a week or so and then try to keep it short and when its cold so you don't let any heat in. I used a couple of digital thermometers with long probes so they can be in the box with the readings outside the insulated area, The box doesn't have to be wood but wood is best against rodents etc, a strong cardboard box inside a slightley larger one will work with a few holes in the top and either taped down or a weight on top just in case the tort does wake and try to get out. I also think a large coolbox would work if holes could be drilled into the top as they're insulated and strong, I always used some of the torts bedding as then it doesn't smell different and made sure the bedding was as cold as the area not freshly put in, the less to wake them the better. Mine were literally well buried in their bedding and there they stayed.

[Pussygalore]

sorry for 2 posts, one thing find a good wind down guide for the 4 weeks before hibernating, its very important and don't forget to take a before wind down weight and one just before boxing, the last one is the important one as the tort should loose much weight during the actual hibernation. You'll need to weigh her every so often but if its done quickly and its cold she shouldn't wake. If you haven't already post her length and weight on the site so someone can say whether she's an ok weight to hibernate, measure the underneath of the shell from front to back if you didn't know and the easiest way is to place a measure with one end to a wall or similar then put the tort on top and push her into the wall so her head goes in, the measurement will be to the back end of her shell. The weight is easiest if its in grams.

[Cali]

Hi,
Couple more questions:
Ive got a plastic box to put her in and I'm going to use soil as a substrate. Then Ive made a insulated box out of foam board to put the box in (in the shed). I've put ventillation holes in the plastic box. Do I need to put some in the foam as well? Surely that will mean the insulation is redundant...

Also- I was planning to wait until the temperature dropped below 5C at night, but she has been in her box for days now, not moving and inside her shell. She makes a noise and moves very slightly if I touch her foot. Can I put her down now? Or should I still wait?

Thanks.