Is Alice poorly or am I paranoid?!

[MoggyW]

Hello

I am getting a bit worried about my 8 yo Graecea Tortoise. I've had her for four years and she's always done fine. Since coming out of hibernation this year (she lost literally no weight after 10ish weeks so I was happy). She seems now seems a bit lethargic, is slowly going off her food and I'm worried she doesn't seem to be "standing" on her back legs very much. Her back legs seem straight out most of the time when she is resting, she never stands, and I can't Remeber if she ever did! She can retract them fine, seems to have good range of motion, just not much strength? She can move around quite fast but chooses not to so much. She is still pooping fine, nearly every time she has a bath.

She lives in a table 2ft by 3ft, with a heat bulb at one end and a reptiglo 5.0 at the other, she loves the heat side tho. She has a bath three times a week, and totally ignores water left in the table.

She eats mostly dandelion, mixed salad (not iceberg), and the odd bit of fruit (which she is now refusing which worries me). She has Nutrobal sprinkled on her food a couple of times a week. I worry she doesn't get enough exercise - I have a run on the grass but it doesn't seem warm enough very often for her to go out.

Also, I'm almost embarrassed to be asking this but I am not entirely sure how much I should be feeding her - when she was eating really well she'd eat until I ran out so I've never really got a handle on it!!

Sorry for the daft questions but I really want to do the best by her!

[burnt toast]

2 x 3 seems a very small table for an 8 year old tort so I wonder if lack of exercise is playing a part? Also 5% UV is too low I don't personally use tubes but believe it should be 10% or above. No strength in back legs can be a sign of MBD (but also other things, egg binding for instance, has she ever been kept with another tort?) What are her temperatures like?

(oh & I was told ages ago by specialist vet to feed them the size of their shell, in 3D not flat) but to be honest I don't measure mine. I just give them food & if it seems to have disappeared too quick or they still seem hungry they get a bit more.

[MoggyW]

Thanks for the reply, it's funny, she's trying to prove me wrong because she's been marching around and stretching her legs for about an hour now!! And she definitely can hold herself up - she's showing me right now lol!!

I think she's 8 because she was given to me by a friend four years ago, who got her from a dubious "breeder", her "papers" say she was born in 2007. In 2010 she was 85mm long and 105g (I keep her measurements in a book!). Now she is 10cm long and 225g, so she is growing. Do you reckon that's a good rate to grow at because I have no idea?? Because she is still quite small she seems to fit ok in the table, she marches around a little every day but stays mostly in her basking spot. She tromps around the living room a couple of times a week, and as I said she does go out in the garden in a huge run when it's warm.

She has never met another tortoise while I've had her so I very much doubt she's gravid, also I'm not entirely sure she's a she, I guessed! I have been reading up on MBD but she appears to today have made a miraculous recovery now I've posted on here!!

I think though her temps might be a bit low, the gradient is only 18-23 at the moment and I think it should be higher, and I will definitely invest in a 10.0 bulb, I think it's due for a change anyway.

So how big do you think a 10cm long tort's house should be? I think I might need a bigger living room!!

At least I reckon I'm going ok on how much I'm feeding her! :{

[Pussygalore]

you need the cool end or ambient/room temp to be around 20c through the day with a slight drop at night but only down to 15 or a bit higher and the basking/hot spot needs to be 32-34c so there's a lot of difference. This can be difficult to achieve in a smaller table but with a bit of fiddling not impossible, there does need to be a definate difference, its how the tort controls its temp by moving to and fro the different areas. I'm assuming thats she's a Ibera and if you're not sure then post a photo of top and underneath and someone will soon id her, if an Ibera that seem's very small as she would be near adult age and my adults were over 2000gr and around 11-12inch. Anyway try to post a photo, you need something like photobucket to do so or at least that's what I use.

[MoggyW]

She's a thigh spur, she def has the little nubbins on the backs of her thighs. I posted a pic a long time ago and people agreed Grecian, which is what is on her "papers", apparently born in Tunisia. Tbh I'm not exactly believing in the papers because the breeder sounded dire. So you think that's really not enough growth? She could be a lot younger, how old would a 10cm tort be then do you reckon?

[MoggyW]

http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps7b79654a.jpg

And

http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps0a80c507.jpg

Hope that works!

[Pussygalore]

The word Graeca is the prefix for the Ibera and the Graeca Graeca the Ibera being the more common, I don't know much about the other but think its a smaller species and doesn't hibernate due to where it comes from. I had Ibera which were, like I said a lot bigger. Hopefully someone with more knowlege about size will come along I do know that torts grow at different rates the same as us.

[burnt toast]

If it is a Tunisian that would account for her small size as they are a smaller species. I have had a look & top view doesn't look Tunisian to me ( but I hasten to add I am not an expert) they usualy have a yellow splodge on their heads which looks to be missing on your tort. But from underneath I note the markings are symmetrical which could indicate Tunisian lol. Wait for Danny he will tell you exactly what species you have. I would however say you have a male

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

The word Graeca is the prefix for the Ibera and the Graeca Graeca the Ibera being the more common, I don't know much about the other but think its a smaller species and doesn't hibernate due to where it comes from. I had Ibera which were, like I said a lot bigger. Hopefully someone with more knowlege about size will come along I do know that torts grow at different rates the same as us.

This is not strictly true, I know a keeper with a testudo graeca graeca who weighs 5kilos:0)
But the species can vary from some areas where they are only around 600grms.
So can actually vary more in size than iberas

I kept and bred graecas for over fifteen years, but downsized to keep iberas only. As I find they have more personality:0)

[MoggyW]

Lol when I posted last time no one could definitively say what she was, or if she was male or female!! All I know is even if she is growing really slowly, she has eaten, hibernated, and marched around quite successfully for the time I've had her, and she's great fun!

I'm thinking now she's been sluggish/not wanting to eat quite so eagerly recently mostly because of the temperature - I think I've out a much lower wattage bulb in this year, and I've also ordered a 10.0 bulb to perk her up. Hopefully that will all help her, whatever he/she is!! I'd be interested to know though, I might put up the pics in the identifying section.

Thanks for the replies guys, all advice is greatly appreciated