New here and worried about my Horsfield.....

[deeshine]

Hi, we have two Horsfield tortoises. The first, Walter, we got last March and he was less than a year old then, so I'd say about a year old now. The second, Whitney, is much bigger aged about two, we got in September.

Whitney seems to be thriving, but Walter we are worried about and I'm wondering if it's the introduction of Whitney that has caused him to go downhill...

Walter used to eat well, lovely wide open eyes etc. over time his left eye has closed completely is a little swollen and he paws at it a lot, in fact he paws at them both. He sleeps constantly and had stopped feeding until the past few days when I've introduced a carrot baby food bath three times a day. He hasn't drank much but enough to have done a little poo!

They both live in a vivarium with half straw bedding that's like pellets and half blended Mediterranean substrate - both made by a company called Prorep.

There is a 100w red heat bulb, a heat mat and a uv light in the viv. There is also a thermostat which dims the heat lamp once the correct temp is reached. Temps run at between 80 - 90 degrees.

We are looking for some help and advice for our little Walter, the poor little guy needs help and I'm really not sure what to do!

Thanks in advance,

Dee

[sandy]

Originally Posted by deeshine

Hi, we have two Horsfield tortoises. The first, Walter, we got last March and he was less than a year old then, so I'd say about a year old now. The second, Whitney, is much bigger aged about two, we got in September.

Whitney seems to be thriving, but Walter we are worried about and I'm wondering if it's the introduction of Whitney that has caused him to go downhill...

Walter used to eat well, lovely wide open eyes etc. over time his left eye has closed completely is a little swollen and he paws at it a lot, in fact he paws at them both. He sleeps constantly and had stopped feeding until the past few days when I've introduced a carrot baby food bath three times a day. He hasn't drank much but enough to have done a little poo!

They both live in a vivarium with half straw bedding that's like pellets and half blended Mediterranean substrate - both made by a company called Prorep.

There is a 100w red heat bulb, a heat mat and a uv light in the viv. There is also a thermostat which dims the heat lamp once the correct temp is reached. Temps run at between 80 - 90 degrees.

We are looking for some help and advice for our little Walter, the poor little guy needs help and I'm really not sure what to do!

Thanks in advance,

Dee

Vivs are not good for most med tortoises and horsfields, they are too hot and too dry.
The red heat bulb is of no use what so ever, and should not be used at nightime.
Sorry to be blunt, but your husbandry is incorrect for horsfields.
They need to be in an open topped enclosure so they get good air circulation. This can be changed if you can turn your viv on its back and the doors taken off. Or by opening one door and putting a wide piece of wood/ thick cardboard across the opening so they dont escape.
When adding one tortoise to another, you should put the new one in a separate enclosure. Allowing him/her to adjust to a new set up and way of being kept. As this can stress tortoises and bring out any viruses etc out.
Temps for horsfields should be around 30-32c at one end and around 25c the other. They should have no extra heat at night, only the heat of the house. Red lights do nothing for any tortoise.
Substrate should be soil, as thats what they have in the wild.
Diet should be weeds and flowers.
Water should be available at all times, for bathing and drinking.
Dehydration is one of the biggest killers in small tortoises.
It does sound as though bringing in the new tortoise has stressed your original tort, and caused some sort of infection. You need to get your tortoise to a good tortoise vet to find out whats wrong.
Did you buy from a shop?
As they usually give out all the wrong advice, and get you to buy things like vivs, red lights and substrate thats incorrect to make a profit.

[Jan W]

Dear Dee
Sandy is right and provided very sound advice.

When my torts first came I was given wood shaving substrate and it caused problems with Bertie's eyes. As soon as I changed to half play sand and half top soil the problems stopped completely. If you have a look though the forum you will see various recommendations and many experienced owners are using coir. Although of course he may have an infection of his eye rather than some irritation. It must be really uncomfortable for him.

The heat mat is not a good idea.

Do come back with more questions as there are so many experts on this forum to help you.

[burnt toast]

I havent read above responses but just wanted to say the pro rep, tortoise life/ terrain is whats most likely irritating his eyes. Please remove this asap. You can get optrex infected eye drops from a pharmacy, this one has antibiotics. Dont say its for an animal though, or they wont sell it you! Good luck.

[Jan W]

Dee
I had another thought.

When I first got my torts I downloaded a booklet for free from the Tortoise Trust web site. This really helped me and as you have a number of things to think about could help you too.

Do let us know how you get on.
Jan

[markbigears]

Hi Dee, I'm new to tort keeping myself but if I was you, I'd be getting him to a specialist vet to sort his eye out. Sounds like the substrate has got in his eye? Had a quick look at the pro rep site but unsure as to what you are using? Are you giving him warm baths? Good luck and let us know how you get on. Mark x

[CherryBrandy]

Dear Dee, welcome to the site. just double check your 100w red bulb in a viv. I reckon that will be scorching hot directly underneath and in my experience Horsfields (or at least mine) don't like it too hot at all. I keep all my torts including Egyptian around 26 -29 anyway and if over wintering. If he rubs his eye constantly there is likely irritation but it could have got a bit hot and then irritation. occurs with the rubbing. Horsfields don't like it too humid either so it may be an idea to check your humidity levels , daily. These tortoises like stimulation, lots to do or they can end up like Happy Feet in the penguin pool. I have had 35 Horsfields over the years and they are gregarious but can be nasty little fellows to each other too. Definitely ditch the straw. If straw gets humid or damp and then dry, or doesn't it breeds spores , masses of bacteria too- horrid stuff for a viv and will cause eye irritations, even a little jab in the eye will get infected by the bacteria it carries. Go with Jonathan's advice asap if I were you and apart from that blooming well done on caring for two of the little things. Good luck and keep us posted if you can. CB

[deeshine]

Hi everyone,

I have received much advice, grateful for it all and have so far done the following:

We have separated the torts temporarily by putting a glass divider down the middle of the viv. This is because on a US messageboard they suggested that Whitney was bullying Walter. We do have a tortoise table but the only room it will fit in at our house is the spare room. This room is much much colder than the rest of the house and so until it warms up a bit we thought it best to divide the viv. We are taking both torts out of the viv frequently each day to exercise tho. We also leave the doors of the viv slightly ajar for better air circulation.

We have removed the substrate that was in the viv and replaced it with a top soil play sand mix. This was harder than we thought as the soil was wet through so we had to dry it out in our oven before hand. It smells that stuff when it's warmed up!

We have added water bowls to the viv (the pet shop had told us not to).

We have continued to bathe Walter, in fact we've bathed them both in the carrot baby food baths three times a day and also bathed them in warm water.

Walter has been having chloramphenicol drops in his eye and I am very happy to tell you that it is starting to open and he's much more lively than he was.

I realise that the current viv set up is not ideal but we needed to split them up ASAP to prevent any further bullying. This week now I am looking into trying to sort the heat situation out. The pet shop insists they need this red bulb and tge heat mat but people are telling me different advice, it is very confusing!

Anyhow that is where I'm up to right now. I really appreciate your comments and advice, so please keep it coming!

Dee

[CherryBrandy]

Dee, that's great news. Yes dump the heat mat , awful things for torts. I do use a red lamp at night but only temporarily. A uv should be sufficient and if indoors then no light at all at night. Russian tortoises , can live on the steppes of Afghanistan etc , imagine how cold it can get there! appreciate they will be captive bred but evolution would suggest they would still be fine without heat at night or a red lamp! any photographs would be fabulous ! bullying probably ok as territorial and natural (though may not happen it bigger area -biting is worse and more long term aggression, maybe.

glad he is better, CB

[burnt toast]

Changing the substrate is great, unfortunately & I hate to say this but sand is not If you think about it sand is ground up glass, so not nice if it gets into eyes. Tubular heaters might be an idea in your spare room, as is a childs high sleeper bed (same foot print) two lovely huge tables for torts if you need to split permanently. I would site the heater on wall near/ below their table. These heaters run for pennies and will just take the chill off the room if very cold. The other thing to think about is, if you provide lovely deep soil and theyre cold the torts will do what they would in the wild and dig down in their substrate to keep warm.

How big is your viv? Have they got somewhere to escPe from the heat bulbs?

Glad hes improving by the way, great job xx