Are UV bulbs really necessary?

[alley cat]

I can understand the need for my hatchlings which are mostly on the table to have UV bulbs due to the small amount of time that they have been able to go outside so far this summer but I have been thinking about the rising costs of providing heat and light to my adult torts and was wondering....if my torts have full access to go outside when they want to and are supplimented with Nutrobal, do they really need to have UV bulbs inside the greenhouse? One bulb has blown today so I have put a 100w spot lamp in and it has generated more heat than the other bulb did! also what bulbs would provide the best alternative for economic value if I change to something that will only provide heat and light?

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi there. If you mainly want heat, and some light, then I suggest halogen lighting. This projects heat really well, and something like a 100 watt par 38 Sylvania halogen is great in my opinion.

When my tortoises are living 'outside' i.e. in their coldframes and using the outside area, I don't use uv lighting and I don't use neutrobal either. There is some uv in my coldframes because it's made of plexigalss but even if wasn't I wouldn't use uvb lighting in there.

Part of my reasoning is that due to the relatively low temperatures in the uk, our outdoor tortoises actually spend a lot more time being exposed to sunlight than the wild ones. I reckon the uvb accumulation is very significant because of this.

So in my opinion you don't need to use uvb lighting for outdoors tortoises especially if you are supplementing with neutrobal.

[alley cat]

Thanks for the reply OJ, what you have said about the torts being exposed to more UV rather than less in our cooler climate actually makes alot of sense, I hadn't really thought of it like that before! if I change over to the halogen bulbs can I use my ceramic holders and reflectors or would I need something different?

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi again. Your ceramic holders and reflectors should work fine. Just be sure to buy the bulb that is meant for the fitting. This one will go into an E27 which is what your typical combi bulb goes into.

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/pro...38-120w-flood/

[Catwoman63]

I was thinking that too Alison, I mainly use them for light in the shed, but have ordered 2 100watt halogen bulbs and if they throw out more light then I will not use uvb tubes in the summer x

[Suze65]

My adults don't have a uv bulb in the summer, never have , they are out most of the time, and the odd day without, wont hurt. Just the younger ones that don't go out as much have a uv in the summer.

[Pussygalore]

my outside adults did have combined in their houses but only because they were the old ones from the tables that had been replaced, they probably didn't give off any uv. They were still good though for light and heat, I didn't used to supplement them either but again they did have pellets a few times a week so would have been getting vits etc from them, the male didn't eat very much but the female when carrying eggs would eat anything she could, I also found that she produced a better weight egg with pellets especially the last clutch which were always smaller then the first batch, they increased by a couple of grams. Every year the new lot of hatchlings would have a new combined so I had a lot of spare old ones which went outside.

[sandy]

Originally Posted by alley cat

I can understand the need for my hatchlings which are mostly on the table to have UV bulbs due to the small amount of time that they have been able to go outside so far this summer but I have been thinking about the rising costs of providing heat and light to my adult torts and was wondering....if my torts have full access to go outside when they want to and are supplimented with Nutrobal, do they really need to have UV bulbs inside the greenhouse? One bulb has blown today so I have put a 100w spot lamp in and it has generated more heat than the other bulb did! also what bulbs would provide the best alternative for economic value if I change to something that will only provide heat and light?

My adults dont have extra heat this time of the year in their greenhouse. And I dont use UV lamps, just ordinary bulbs, or old UV bulbs that are still giving heat, but the UV depleated. As they can come and go as they please, and will do this in temps most would think too cold. If we do have a spell of really cold weather ( they dont come out) then I switch the heat on for a couple of hours in the morning so they warm up.
My smaller tortoises do get UV.

[Arcadiajohn]

Hi all,

Are we sure this adds up?

Firstly always look at the wild animal. How much time does it spend in exposure and at what index?

For instance a med tort could easily obtain an index of 6-8 for 8 months of the year and has evolved to do so.

In the uk we top out at 4 really and for how many days a year??

My worry is that by not properly energising an animal regardless of species to the wild index as dictated by evolution we invest in bone density issues in it's later life.

The last few years of captive keeping will certainly not override x million years
of evolution.

If running costs are an issue it is possible to fully energise a tort to a wild index for 24watts! And in an area that is wide enough to be of use.

Supplements can be used of course but we must know the safe dosages and how to get them accurately into the system. Don't forget an over supply of a synthetic compound is just as deadly as MBD!

One thing is for sure as keepers we know very, very little about reptiles still and in the next 5-10 years we will no doubt start to learn a huge amount more

John

[Levi]

Originally Posted by Arcadiajohn

Hi all,

Are we sure this adds up?

Firstly always look at the wild animal. How much time does it spend in exposure and at what index?

For instance a med tort could easily obtain an index of 6-8 for 8 months of the year and has evolved to do so.

In the uk we top out at 4 really and for how many days a year??

My worry is that by not properly energising an animal regardless of species to the wild index as dictated by evolution we invest in bone density issues in it's later life.

The last few years of captive keeping will certainly not override x million years
of evolution.

If running costs are an issue it is possible to fully energise a tort to a wild index for 24watts! And in an area that is wide enough to be of use.

Supplements can be used of course but we must know the safe dosages and how to get them accurately into the system. Don't forget an over supply of a synthetic compound is just as deadly as MBD!

One thing is for sure as keepers we know very, very little about reptiles still and in the next 5-10 years we will no doubt start to learn a huge amount more

John

Are you sure that adds up, firstly some Med torts will spend up to 9 months of the year underground as condition in the wild are either too hot or too cold with no food or water available. Also when they are active they will come out when it is cooler, mornings/evenings and that generally means the sun is lower in the sky so less UV, my tortoise does this when we actually get some hot weather.

Also your light, 24 watts of UV and light with no heat, so no incentive for the tortoise to stay near the UV lamp and of course a tortoise needs heat anyway to metabolise UVB into useful D3.
So unless I've missed something I fail to see how a 24 watt lamp on its own is going to help, obviously some form of radiant heat source will be needed too and these will generally use a lot more than 24 watts, unless it is the sun and if the sun is out the tortoise should be outside enjoying it.