Is my tortoise a Dalmatian?

cyjambo · 09-05-2015, 10:15 AM

Hi there,

I am new to the forum, so first of all I would like to say thank you to everyone for the great and useful information that is found on the site.

I am trying to identify my two male tortoises (Freddy and Vilma - we thought he was a she before "she" showed us that we are definitely wrong

).

To me it seems like they are either hybrid or Dalmatian, but I cannot say for sure. Would you please help me to identify them?

Thanks a lot for your help and happy weekend!

Vilma:

Freddy:

geordie mark · 10-05-2015, 06:32 AM

I think they may be hybrid. Not that hybrid is the right term per say since they only recognise 2 sub species.
The keyholes on the 5th seem to be upside down "S

They are missing some of the herc traits too but don't seem dissimilar to my male.
These are the ID pics of mine

As you can see he has a dot on the 4th vertibral scute, which is unusual for a her but has the "keyhole" or "mushroom" that's missing in the Boettgeri. He also only has one Inguinal scute. His middle line thing has an almost lightening bolt shape which I see regularly on hercs and above his pectoral is U shaped like a herc. Where as yours is more V shaped like a Boettgeri. To sum up again I would say hybrid between them both since they have very bold patterns and some of the traits of herc.

ONielsen · 10-05-2015, 08:26 AM

Looks like a THB and Marks might very well be a hybrid.

geordie mark · 10-05-2015, 08:37 AM

To be quite honest I never ruled that out with my own. I prefer to say herc regardless of the fact a herc is a B anyway I would imagine a serious amount in captivity are hybrids.

emma_mcraf · 10-05-2015, 09:10 AM

I have 3 herc x THB, which were bought as hercs but unfortunately the breeder had been told her THB was a herc. Nevertheless, they are gorgeous tortoises.
I agree that there are probably many hybrids in captivity.

I'd say that Vilma and Freddie are both definitely males and THB.

Mark, your male has a stunning shell.

geordie mark · 10-05-2015, 09:38 AM

Thanks emma, not bad for a Viv kept tortoise eh ?

I knew all those years ago it could be done well if you're willing to invest a little time and money.

cyjambo · 10-05-2015, 10:23 AM

Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for your input, I'll settle with THB

Just a question if you don't mind me asking here: Do you think Freddy and Vilma look ok? I have recently been reading about pyramiding and they were already like this (a bit of pyramiding) when we got them. I am trying to provide enough humidity and proper food for them with lots of fresh air, excersise, ect. but I noticed that at the back above their legs the shape of the shell is a bit like a skirt (coming out, not round). Is this normal? I don't see many other torts like them

Mark, your tort looks amazing, Ema is right

How old is he?

**egyptiandan64** · 11-05-2015, 03:50 AM

They are both Testudo hermanni boettgeri

Danny

cyjambo · 11-05-2015, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

They are both Testudo hermanni boettgeri

Danny

Great, thanks for the info Danny!

burnt toast · 11-05-2015, 05:31 PM

It is a male trait, "wide wheel arches" as I call them (the skirt across back legs!)

09-05-2015, 10:15 AM	#1
cyjambo Junior Member Egg Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 3	Is my tortoise a Dalmatian? Hi there, I am new to the forum, so first of all I would like to say thank you to everyone for the great and useful information that is found on the site. I am trying to identify my two male tortoises (Freddy and Vilma - we thought he was a she before "she" showed us that we are definitely wrong ). To me it seems like they are either hybrid or Dalmatian, but I cannot say for sure. Would you please help me to identify them? Thanks a lot for your help and happy weekend! Vilma: Freddy:

10-05-2015, 06:32 AM	#2
geordie mark Member Juvenile Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: south shields, NE, England Posts: 920	I think they may be hybrid. Not that hybrid is the right term per say since they only recognise 2 sub species. The keyholes on the 5th seem to be upside down "S They are missing some of the herc traits too but don't seem dissimilar to my male. These are the ID pics of mine As you can see he has a dot on the 4th vertibral scute, which is unusual for a her but has the "keyhole" or "mushroom" that's missing in the Boettgeri. He also only has one Inguinal scute. His middle line thing has an almost lightening bolt shape which I see regularly on hercs and above his pectoral is U shaped like a herc. Where as yours is more V shaped like a Boettgeri. To sum up again I would say hybrid between them both since they have very bold patterns and some of the traits of herc. __________________ Mark. T.H.Hercegvenensis 1.0.0 S.P. Babcocki 0.1.0 Chelonoidis Carbonaria 0.1.0 (My Parents) West Highland White Terrier 1.0.0 Scottish Terrier 1.0.0 Last edited by egyptiandan64; 11-05-2015 at 03:48 AM.

10-05-2015, 08:26 AM	#3
ONielsen Member Hatched Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 267	Looks like a THB and Marks might very well be a hybrid. __________________ ----------------------------------------- ON

10-05-2015, 08:37 AM	#4
geordie mark Member Juvenile Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: south shields, NE, England Posts: 920	To be quite honest I never ruled that out with my own. I prefer to say herc regardless of the fact a herc is a B anyway I would imagine a serious amount in captivity are hybrids. __________________ Mark. T.H.Hercegvenensis 1.0.0 S.P. Babcocki 0.1.0 Chelonoidis Carbonaria 0.1.0 (My Parents) West Highland White Terrier 1.0.0 Scottish Terrier 1.0.0

10-05-2015, 09:10 AM	#5
emma_mcraf Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 11,365	I have 3 herc x THB, which were bought as hercs but unfortunately the breeder had been told her THB was a herc. Nevertheless, they are gorgeous tortoises. I agree that there are probably many hybrids in captivity. I'd say that Vilma and Freddie are both definitely males and THB. Mark, your male has a stunning shell. __________________ Emma Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

10-05-2015, 09:38 AM	#6
geordie mark Member Juvenile Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: south shields, NE, England Posts: 920	Thanks emma, not bad for a Viv kept tortoise eh ? I knew all those years ago it could be done well if you're willing to invest a little time and money. __________________ Mark. T.H.Hercegvenensis 1.0.0 S.P. Babcocki 0.1.0 Chelonoidis Carbonaria 0.1.0 (My Parents) West Highland White Terrier 1.0.0 Scottish Terrier 1.0.0

10-05-2015, 10:23 AM	#7
cyjambo Junior Member Egg Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 3	Hi everyone, Thanks a lot for your input, I'll settle with THB Just a question if you don't mind me asking here: Do you think Freddy and Vilma look ok? I have recently been reading about pyramiding and they were already like this (a bit of pyramiding) when we got them. I am trying to provide enough humidity and proper food for them with lots of fresh air, excersise, ect. but I noticed that at the back above their legs the shape of the shell is a bit like a skirt (coming out, not round). Is this normal? I don't see many other torts like them Mark, your tort looks amazing, Ema is right How old is he?

11-05-2015, 03:50 AM	#8
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	They are both Testudo hermanni boettgeri Danny __________________

11-05-2015, 05:31 PM	#10
burnt toast Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,245	It is a male trait, "wide wheel arches" as I call them (the skirt across back legs!)

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