UPDATE w/ new pix: Redfoot indoor habitat and behavior

[tort71]

Originally Posted by pawsplus

It's just your average blue 75 watt incandescent reptile light. I could use a ceramic heat emitter -- and I may switch to one, but the fixture I'm using right now for this purpose won't handle one. There IS a gradient--not sure why you think there is not. The temps are not consistent side to side, no, but in an open enclosure this large it is not easy to be that consistent. I can't heat the entire enclosure -- that's just not physically possible in an open table arrangement. We talk about how horrible vivaria are -- but this is the downside of tortoise tables.

How are you providing a temperature gradient with just a basking lamp and an incandescent light, especially with a tortoise table that size. Yes you can heat the enclosure correctly using ceramic heat emitters, I do it for both of my tables (4'x3' and 5'x3').

Originally Posted by pawsplus

I'm sorry, but that's not true at all! Not for an adult. They can happily go down to 60F. And as I said, if she CHOOSES to be warmer at night, she could go under the blue light. She rarely chooses this even though the blue light is on 24/7.

You base this from what information? Your own? Found this from a TT article:
"In captivity, a moderately dry environment and temperature in the region of 21 C (night) to 27 C (day) will suit most specimens."

21C is roughly 69.8F.
27C is roughly 80.6F.

Source: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/kandb.htm (Under Redfoot section).

You shouldn't leave a light on 24/7, but instead try to simulate day and night cycles.

Originally Posted by pawsplus

Well, what I'm saying is that not everyone buys that. Redfoots are omnivores, and hence, do need some animal protein. I feed a small amount of rehydrated cat food a few times a week. That provides D3.

I don't promote or suggest using cat food. It's unnatural, processed and contains ingredients RFs shouldn't be eating. How much Vitamin D3 does your bag of cat food claim to contain?

Originally Posted by pawsplus

Additionally, Beasley is outside for 8 mos of the year and gets plenty of UVB from the sun then.

What makes you think that because your tortoise was outdoors 8 months, it no longer needs UVB to be healthy? Is Beasley going to become suspended or stop growing the 4 months its inside? That's just nonsense.

Originally Posted by pawsplus

There are a number of people, including some on this board, who feel that commercial UVB lighting is too harsh for tortoises meant to live in forests/on the edge of forests. They have larger eyes than species meant to live in the sunlight and their eyes can be damaged by UVB lighting. That's the reasoning.

Well first off these people need to learn where Redfoots actually live, this is from the same article posted above:
"Captive environment: Red-foot tortoises inhabit grassland savannah and drier forest habitats throughout South America. In only a few localities does it impinge upon true tropical rainforest habitats."

Beasley lives outdoors 8 months out of the year correct? What protects Beasley from going blind outdoors where he experiences stronger amounts of UVB rays than any artificial UVB bulb can give off? That logic just makes no sense whatsoever.

[tort71]

Originally Posted by pawsplus

My point is that this is actually a debatable issue when it comes to RFs. <sigh> I'm not a newbie -- I've been caring (very well) for my tort for 10 years now, and I've been around the block. I've also been providing UVB all that time. I was, however, convinced that there MIGHT be something to this theory, which is why I'm asking if anyone else does it this way. I am not sure of the answer, and if you are, fine. But I'm not.

So you gave your tortoise UVB at all times for 10 years and he isn't blind? How do you suggest this theory has any merit then?

[tort71]

Originally Posted by pawsplus

LOL! Check out my other posts, huh? I've never gotten snarky w/ anyone before, so look to thyself! I've been a member here a lot longer than either you or the person w/ whom I was disagreeing, and you don't even have a RF -- so I'm not really sure why you're responding in the first place????

I think you seriously need to check yourself there mate. Just because you've been a member of this forum or your post count is higher means diddily in debate. You provide no evidence for your stances but hearsay. You even ignore your own findings after exposing your RF to UVB for 10 years.

[linda]

linda has her mod hat on

please keep this civil & on topic

no need for bad language or personal attack

[pawsplus]

Look, I'm getting a little tired of arguing w/ you. I prefer to take my advice from people on this board whose opinion I actually trust, o.k.? However . . .

Originally Posted by tort71

How are you providing a temperature gradient with just a basking lamp and an incandescent light, especially with a tortoise table that size.

Well, AS I ALREADY SAID, it is upper 80s to low 90s under the basking light, which is up high enough that the heat dissipates as you move away from it. I.e., it is mid-80s about 1/2 way down the table and 70s at the cool end. That sounds like a temp gradient to me.

You base this from what information? Your own?

See my previous post re: Beasley's breeders. I've never seen anyone contradict it. I'm sure that if you ask Andy Highfield he'd have no problem w/ 62F at night.

You shouldn't leave a light on 24/7, but instead try to simulate day and night cycles.

Um. . . it's a BLUE REPTILE NIGHT LIGHT. The whole point of them is that they provide heat w/out visible light. Blue light does not keep herps up at night -- these lights work the same way as a ceramic heat emitter. I can't believe you've never heard of these?? They are pretty common. AS I SAID, I do have ceramic emitters but I don't have the right fixture for them right now that will also work w/ the enclosure. They are on order. In the meantime, the blue light does a fine job.

I don't promote or suggest using cat food. It's unnatural, processed and contains ingredients RFs shouldn't be eating. How much Vitamin D3 does your bag of cat food claim to contain?

1801 IU/kg. The food I use contains no preservatives and human-grade meat is the first 5 ingredients. It's fine if you choose to do something else. I choose to feed this (in VERY small amounts).

What makes you think that because your tortoise was outdoors 8 months, it no longer needs UVB to be healthy? Is Beasley going to become suspended or stop growing the 4 months its inside? That's just nonsense.

As I have said repeatedly, I am investigating this theory. It is not my theory. And the theory is that omnivores, who can get D3 from food, do not need to get it yearround from the sun. I am not entirely convinced of this. Hence my question. What I don't appreciate is being treated by you like someone who knows nothing about tortoises.

Beasley lives outdoors 8 months out of the year correct? What protects Beasley from going blind outdoors where he experiences stronger amounts of UVB rays than any artificial UVB bulb can give off? That logic just makes no sense whatsoever.

The logic is this: the mercury vapor lights are quite strong -- human beings are not supposed to look directly at them or expose themselves to them for long periods. Even in a large enclosure it is difficult to get away from a mercury vapor lamp entirely. Med/desert torts have no problem w/ this b/c they are pretty much out in the sun most of the time in their natural environment.

As I've now said repeatedly, I am not convinced of this theory. I have read it several places, INCLUDING HERE, and am considering the various implications. As I stated in an earlier post, I am going to use a compact fluorescent (instead of the stronger mercury vapor lamp) and keep it on only 5 hours a day or so in an effort to compromise b/t the two theories.

[alicia]

i've had many tortoises and altho i dont have a redfoot now you cant question if i post a reply or not!!!!!

all i know is i totally agree with tort71.

[linda]

my night time ceramic heater is set to come on at 19c but it is rare that the heater does come on

as advised by darren piglet

elizabeth your tort is a lot older than mine so i think your temp should be okay

[tort71]

Originally Posted by pawsplus

Look, I'm getting a little tired of arguing w/ you. I prefer to take my advice from people on this board whose opinion I actually trust, o.k.? However . . .

I don't believe anything I've said has been off base?

Originally Posted by pawsplus

Well, AS I ALREADY SAID, it is upper 80s to low 90s under the basking light, which is up high enough that the heat dissipates as you move away from it. I.e., it is mid-80s about 1/2 way down the table and 70s at the cool end. That sounds like a temp gradient to me.

That's one powerful basking light. Which model are you using?

Originally Posted by pawsplus

See my previous post re: Beasley's breeders. I've never seen anyone contradict it. I'm sure that if you ask Andy Highfield he'd have no problem w/ 62F at night.

My previous post contained an article from TT, written by Andy Highfield. He gave those numbers.

Originally Posted by pawsplus

Um. . . it's a BLUE REPTILE NIGHT LIGHT. The whole point of them is that they provide heat w/out visible light.

You never made it clear that it was a night light.

Originally Posted by pawsplus

As I have said repeatedly, I am investigating this theory. It is not my theory. And the theory is that omnivores, who can get D3 from food, do not need to get it yearround from the sun. I am not entirely convinced of this. Hence my question. What I don't appreciate is being treated by you like someone who knows nothing about tortoises.

The logic is this: the mercury vapor lights are quite strong -- human beings are not supposed to look directly at them or expose themselves to them for long periods. Even in a large enclosure it is difficult to get away from a mercury vapor lamp entirely. Med/desert torts have no problem w/ this b/c they are pretty much out in the sun most of the time in their natural environment.

As I've now said repeatedly, I am not convinced of this theory. I have read it several places, INCLUDING HERE, and am considering the various implications. As I stated in an earlier post, I am going to use a compact fluorescent (instead of the stronger mercury vapor lamp) and keep it on only 5 hours a day or so in an effort to compromise b/t the two theories.

Does the sun give off more UVB than a bulb?

[pawsplus]

Originally Posted by linda

my night time ceramic heater is set to come on at 19c

as advised by darren piglet

elizabeth your tort is a lot older than mine so i think your temp should be okay

Yes, the warmer temps are required for babies, and of course I kept Beas a lot warmer at night when she was a baby. As I said, she has the choice to go to a warmer area at night -- she chooses not to! <shrug> It's their job to thermoregulate and she knows how to do that-- I just let her do it.

[linda]

as you say she has the choice