Lighting Question

[Finfendy]

Sorry to keep bombarding you with all these questions!

I think we have finally decided on the size and shape of the table, bearing in mind this is temporary accommodation for tiny torts, they will get a much bigger space in a couple of years.

So basically it's a 3ft square with a corner cut off. So the 2 long edges will be 3ft and it looks like it will have 2 or 3 part levels so plenty of hidey spaces. The issue I have, is the table is under a window in a south facing room! I know this is less than ideal. We do have a black out blind to stop any direct sunlight. Should I put their basking lamp under the window? Will I need an additional desk lamp for extra light?

I was thinking of ordering the Arcadia D3 100watt UVB thingy.

Also how important is humidity to small torts? I ordered a hygrometer thing, what levels should their table be at?

I am in impatient panic mode at the moment, just want my torts but trying to get everything perfect and probably going way over the top!

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi there

don't be sorry! Some of us enjoy answering questions and it's one of the main resons for us being here at all.

Hidey places on the table is good.

When using a combined heat and UV lamp there can be a risk of excess heat if the table is in sunlight. The wattage of the combined lamp needed depends partly on the ambient temperature in the room. Some people find the 80 watt Arcadia is enough for smaller tables, others find the 100 watt is right for them. Although it might seem bonkers I thnk you will need to use the blind.

It is important to be able to vary the height of the combined lamp and the easiest way to do that is to use the Zoomed Large Lampstand. With that we can raise or lower the lamp to get the right temperature at the basking spot. There are cheaper ways of achieving the same thing, which are good for those who enjoy the DIY apporach.

You are right to ask about brightness. In the mediterranean countries light levels are naturally high compared to the UK, and that's outdoors. So we should ask ourselves if it is bight enough for tortoises indoors and the combined lamps only produce a certain amount of light. A lot of their energy is used in producing heat.

When using a combined lamp we can add extra lighting to make it brighter. If we use a desklamp then this is also providing heat unless we use an LED light source with no heat output. The Arcadia Jungle Dawn LED lamps are great for this purpose but that does mean buying more stuff and haivng more wires. A desklamp with an LED bulb can do the job almost as well.

Humidity is a question we've often discussed and there are different views. With really small tortoises there is a risk of dehydration and it's good to bath them every day. The substrate ought not to be totally dry but it shouldn't be wet either - it should be damp underneath and might look dry on the top.

My opinion is that humidity in the air is very difficult to control except in very confined spaces. Any water we spray about in a room will become absorbed into the large volume of air in that room and there isn't any reason for that moisture to hang about over the tortoise table. My opinion is that spraying only has a short term effect on humidity but it can still be worth doing.

One view is that we should offer alternatives and let the tortoise decide what's best. So we might offer a humid hide and a drier one.

What I've found is that I need to learn from observing the tortoises and measuring what I can measure. When I set up an indoor table or an outisde pen I normally find that it doesn't pan out quite the way I expected so I need to be able to change things about.

It's definintely worth getting everything in place and testing it before the tortoises are introduced. Even then it will probably need to be adjsuted once the residents have actually moved in.

[Finfendy]

Thanks for such an informative response Jonathan, I'm reading everything I can find about tortoises but it's always good to get reassurance from people that are currently keeping torts. You never know how outdated the information you find on the internet is.

I think there will be at least 2 hides built into the table, place I have got on of those log hides so I can easily convert one into a humid hide and just watch my torts and see what they do.

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by Finfendy

Thanks for such an informative response Jonathan, I'm reading everything I can find about tortoises but it's always good to get reassurance from people that are currently keeping torts. You never know how outdated the information you find on the internet is.

I think there will be at least 2 hides built into the table, place I have got on of those log hides so I can easily convert one into a humid hide and just watch my torts and see what they do.

There is an awful lot of old information out there and also quite a few people who keep giving out advice from the 1895 first edition of how to keep a tortoise book.
I prefer to use arcadia tubes as they do give off a better covering of light and a separate arcadia 100w heat bulb.

[Finfendy]

This is what I'm finding Gordon! You read one thing and then the next is something contradicting it.
Ok, so if I have 2 long sides can I put an arcadia tube down one side and a heat bulb on the other? I'm assuming one of these gives UV?
It's all food for thought with the design of the tortoise table and which is going to work best.

[Arcadiajohn]

Some fantastic replies here as always!

I would counsel you to not use a combi as your prime source however.

They are fantastic at what they do be we can do better , safer and with lower running costs

We now suggest the use of a good thermostatically controlled heat source over the basking point. Halogen is best I feel as it produces more heat per watt used than tungsten. A 50w halogen will replace a 100w tungsten. That's a saving to start.

I would then, in your system use the. D3+ 55w UVFLOOD. This is a low energy, totally waterproof HOT5 UVB system that produces as much UVB as the combi but over a vastly greater area. This then means that you can provide a usable gradient over the whole animal

Lamps lasts a whole year

John

[Finfendy]

Thanks for the input Arcadiajohn.

So I just found out there is a reptile specialist near me so we took a drive down there, the first thing they did was recommend a vivarium! I had mentioned we were making our own so no chance of getting any money out of us for the enclosure. so I listened to what she had to say about why a vivarium and it's all about heat... came back, more research.
Now I got a thermometer today and have had it in the room. It's been overcast and raining here all day and it's been sitting around 18 degrees so a bit of a way to go to reach the basking heat needed. As it's a very small room, there is a possibility of heating the whole room so I can get the room temperature in there a bit more constant... would this help?

[CherryBrandy]

sort of yes. ambient temperature does help. Sunshine will make it rise so be very careful with the window placed tortoise table. I have same but place a piece of wood over one end also. Temps will rise rapidly in the sun with a heat lamp. also be careful - stale air on two tiers can cause RNS and stress. Go for practical rather than looks. We all like a Ferrari but cleaning those wheels must be a real bummer and no doubt but when it goes wrong we wish we opted for a.... beetle?!.

[Finfendy]

Thanks for the comments CB. Don't worry, it's not going to be a full 2 tiered table, just will have some built in hides. Not exactly sure what he is going to make, I've shown him photos and given him measurements and told him it needs to be accessible as I have to clean it.
Think I have decided on the situation of the lighting.
Are there any hard and fast rules about how long the lights should be on for or when they come on?

[Ozric Jonathan]

Hi there Fin

Most of us find that 12 hours a day is about right for the heat and light. I use timers and they are set to come on at about 0730.